– Transcript 106
R: Good afternoon. Welcome. It’s good being with you again. I welcome you with all my heart.
Ask yourself, “Why did I come here today? To get out of the wind? I had nothing better to do? I’m tired of watching TV?” What do you really want? Whatever it is, it’s wrong. How can the Self want anything? If you have an inkling of who you are you realize you are all pervading. You are effortless awareness. How can you desire anything? This is what blasphemy means, when you believe you need something. When you feel there’s something wrong, either with yourself or with anybody else. When you feel your life is not going right, that’s actually blasphemy, for you are downgrading your reality.
The truth about you is that you are perfect. You are bright and shining right now, just the way you are.
Of course, as soon as you start to think it changes, doesn’t it? You think about your mistakes, and about the bills you have to pay, and about life, the way it’s treating you, and all sorts of things. Then you can call yourself human and you cannot say, “All is well.” But if you are spontaneous, and you live in the eternal now, and you understand there is no other time but now, right now this second, you are perfect. There is absolutely nothing wrong in this moment, is there?
You therefore have to come to the conclusion that this moment is all there is, for this moment becomes the next moment, and the next moment, and the next moment. If you are at peace with yourself in this moment then you will always be at peace. But if you cannot be at peace in this moment then you become worldly, and you fret and worry about your body, your affairs, the world situation and the universe.
You think about the black holes that are going to come and get you, and all the pollution, and all of the rest of the stuff that seems to be going on in this world. If you focus on those things you will always be unhappy. Those things have been going on since the beginning of time, for millions of years, in many civilizations. These same problems have come about, same worries, same fears. Yet there have been individuals who have transmuted and transcended those things and have become free.
Take a look at your life and see which way it’s going. You become so enthralled in the world. When something good happens to you, you become happy. When you get your way, you become happy. When it doesn’t work that way or you think that something is against you or somebody seems to have wronged you, you become miserable. Is this how a divine person is supposed to live? Of course not.You are not the condition. You are not the world. You are not the universe. Leave those things alone. Do not concern yourself about person, place, or thing. There is a power within you which will take care of everything, if you will let it, by not worrying, by not fretting, by not concerning yourself. I know it sounds strange, for you have been brought up to think, “Unless I do something, my life will be a shambles. I have to make something out of my life.”
The truth is you have no life. You never had a life. There is only consciousness and you are that. What appears to be your life is an optical illusion, a mirage. The things in your life appear to be karmic. That’s why you have experiences. But when you find out the game that’s being played is erroneous, a joke, it is only a game, you wake up and you stop playing. You become absolutely, totally free.
How many of you are really happy, really happy? About three people, four people. How many of you are not happy? Two honest people. The rest of you are somewhere in the middle.
Now the truth is, what difference does it make whether you’re happy or unhappy?
What difference does it make what’s going on in the world or in your life? Your situation, whether you’re healthy or sick, rich or poor, happy or sad, has absolutely nothing to do with spiritual life.
Where did we learn that if we become spiritual people we’re supposed to live a good human life and be rich, and healthy, and happy, and have all the things we want?
These things have absolutely nothing to do with spiritual life. It is the churches that propagated these things, that told you, “If you believe our way your life will change and you’ll be prosperous, you’ll walk on cloud nine, all your troubles will be over, you’ll never have a bad day in your life again.”
You see the world, your body, the universe, being Maya, an illusion, all kinds of things happen to people. The idea is to transcend that situation, that condition. Allowing your body to do what it wants. Allowing the world to be the way it is, not fighting, not reacting, not trying to change anything, leaving everything alone. When you can do this something will happen and you will see that your real nature is total happiness. But not the kind of human happiness you’re thinking about. It is the peace which passeth all understanding. It is a divine happiness that comes to the person who has surrendered their body, their affairs, their life, to God, to consciousness, to the Self, and they have become the Self, absolute reality.
Now these people, to others, may appear to be living just like all of us, going through various experiences, but I can assure you that these people are totally free. They are not experiencing anything. Yet to you it looks as though they are experiencing things.
But they are totally, absolutely free.
The world and spirituality are two different things. The world does not exist as it appears. Your body does not exist the way it appears. The universe is not what you think it is. All is well. There is absolutely nothing wrong with anything. Do not look at situations. Do not accept facts. All facts are subject to change. Do not stick up for your rights.
You have no rights. Be compassionate. Have humility. Have mercy on yourself. Never condemn yourself. Never believe you are inferior or superior. Identify with the higher Self and one day you will automatically let go of everything and become that Self.
At that time there will not be a world and reality. There will be just reality by itself and the world will become images to you, superimposed on reality, images that do not exist. Then you will find happiness that can never vanish, happiness that can never disappear.
Begin to see yourself this way. Not as a mortal being. Not as a being struggling through life, and fretting, and worrying, and being upset over conditions, having to make decisions, crying over spilled milk. Here come these cliches again, crying over spilled milk. Has anybody ever cried over spilled milk? Maybe a cat.
Don’t fight the world. There’s nothing to fight and there’s absolutely nothing to fear. Be yourself. Be your real Self. Awaken. It’s about time you knew who you are.
Awaken, and become free.
We’ve been reading from the Ashtrunga Ashtravakra Gita, how do you pronounce that?
SE: Ashtravakra. (R: Ashtravakra Gita.) There is a test at the end of the reading.
R: If you do not have a copy of that Gita be sure to buy one. For every student of Advaita Vedanta should read that book. So if Edward would read the first two chapters they’re both short, we will listen patiently.
SE: This is the Shambala book by Byrom.
(Ed does the reading.)
R: Well it’s that time again. Time for questions and answers. So we’re going to begin with the first question. (students laugh) The answer is “All is well and everything is unfolding as it should.” (students laugh)
Q: (Robert reads) I feel superior or inferior to another am I not feeling superior or inferior to myself? In as much as the other is my own creation? And exist only in my the jiva’s mind?
A: I gave you the answer. Everything emanates out of the mind. Superior, inferior, exterior, interior. It’s all the same. It is all a lie. Everything comes from the mind. You have those feelings because you were brought up to believe that that’s true. You were brought up to believe that some people are superior to others, some people are inferior to others.
But in truth there are no people and there are no feelings.
Therefore know yourself. Realize that all is well. Everything else are mental concepts, beliefs, preconceived ideas. Do not think about those things at all. Inquire within yourself, “To whom do these thoughts come about inferior and superior? To whom do they come? To me. To the I-thought. It is the I-thought that feels this.” Realize that you are not the I-thought by following the I-thought to the heart center. Where it will be totally dissolved in the source. You are the source. The source is absolute consciousness, pure awareness. The source is God and God is all there is. You are not the body or the mind.
Q: (Robert reads) Whatever I do or don’t do, the mind is there, yet it is so subtle that there is fear. (Robert repeats to himself) Whatever I do or don’t do, the mind is there, it is so subtle that there is fear.
A: For whom is the mind? We go back to that old mind again. The mind game.
“For whom is the mind subtle? For whom is there fear?” Again it’s for the I. I feel the fear. I feel the mind. I feel these things. Your job is to remove the I-thought totally and completely. Annihilate the I. You can do that by becoming aware. That the I-thought is the culprit and is causing you to feel this way or you can ask yourself, “To whom does the I come? Who am I? What is the source of the I?” And become free.
But do not listen to the mind. Watch, become the witness to your fears. Allow your fears to do what they will. You simply observe those fears. Do not accept the fears as reality and do not accept the fears as unreality. As you just watch and become the witness to the fears they will become weaker and weaker and they will totally vanish. The reason that they totally vanish is because they were never real to begin with. What is not real will disappear when you investigate it thoroughly. And you investigate it by inquiring, “To whom do they come? I fear, Who am I? What is I that fears?” There is no I and there is no fear.
Q: (Robert reads) If a soul becomes fully awakened… - That’s the first mistake, a soul can never be fully awakened. If you believe you are a soul then you will remain a soul and maybe become a heel too. (students laugh) There is no soul to awaken. A soul can never awaken.
SE: Can a heel?
R: A heel maybe. (laughter) Awakening is your real nature. You are awakened. But if you believe you are a soul waiting to be awakened you’ve got a long wait. Forget about the soul. (Robert returns to the question) So if a soul becomes fully awakened and is now off the wheel of reincarnation after they leave the body do they go on to a higher state of realization? Or is there a choice to reincarnate again to help others awaken? Or are they absorbed back into deity and all individual consciousness erased?
A: There are no states of awakening. There are no levels. You are either awakened or not awakened. The levels are in sadhana. In spiritual practice. There are levels in spiritual practice. But there are no levels in awakening. Once you awaken you understand that you’ve always been awakened. There never was a time when you were not awakened.
Just like once you realize that the water in the mirage does not exist you will never again be fooled by that mirage. For you will always realize that it is nothing, it does not exist. And so it is with this. If you believe you are a soul that has to be awakened then you believe in the water in the mirage. But there is no water and there is no soul. The soul is like the body. It’s a subtle body. It is the soul that reincarnates, but that is an illusion. For there is no reincarnation. There is no karma.
It is also true that as long as you believe that you are a body and a mind and you continue this belief if you are a good humanitarian, a good human being the soul reincarnates on a higher planet. Where there is less strife, less problems and less worries. Or you can come back to this earth and reincarnate in a family that is advanced spiritually. Where you can carry on at a young age. but all this is nonsense. The truth is you were never asleep, you were never a soul, you never reincarnated you are absolute nothing. That is your true nature, no thing. You are no thing and you are that right now. Not tomorrow or next week or when you feel better. Right this moment you are absolutely free.
Q: (Robert reads) If everything in the relative world is preordained that must mean there is no freewill. After awakening and being at one with the Self. There is only one Self so there must be only one will, is this correct?
A: The only freewill you have is not to react to person, place, or thing, to conditions. You have the freewill to watch and observe all the conditions happening before you and around you, but not to react. That is the freewill you have. Everything else doesn’t exist. Preordination does not exist. Destiny does not exist. Karma does not exist. But it appears to exist just as the body appears to exist. Just as the mind appears to exist. Just as your fears and your thoughts and you reactions appear to exist.
As long as you’re doing these things the appearance becomes stronger and stronger and stronger. Therefore the first step is not reacting to any condition that comes before you. Realizing this condition as a mirage. It’s a lie, an optical illusion. Do not accept the condition no matter what it is, as real. And do not try to get rid of it for if you try to get rid of it you believe it’s real. Therefore do not work on removing any condition from your life rather work on examining yourself and asking yourself, “Who sees this condition?
Who is going through this experience? Who has this belief?” Follow this to the point of realizing that there is no I-thought, there is no body going through anything, there is only the Self, there is only pure awareness and you are that.
Q: (Robert reads) Is it true that a vegetarian diet is more conducive to making progress on the spiritual path?
A: This is a contradiction. Automatically if you’re practicing sadhana in the right way you will turn to vegetarianism. You will begin to see that the eating of dead flesh is unnecessary. It will come by itself. You will not be interested in killing cows or chickens or pigs or having them killed for you by the butchers. This makes you are finer human being.
It makes you pure to an extent.
There are those people in zen teachings, in various yoga teachings that do eat meat. Like the Tibetan monks or people in Tibet. Where the weather is very very cold.
Eskimos they have to eat blubber because the temperature is very low and the weather is very cold so they have to eat this to survive. Yet those people have never experienced the highest truth. They have never become the Self.
There is really no self-realized being that eats meat. I mean a truly self-realized being. There are many spiritual beings who practice high forms of sadhana who eat meat.But a totally realized being avoids meat. Their meals are very simple. They eat to survive.
And the food supply that they need is very little. Unless they’re doing something to help someone or to show someone something.
So the answer is again a truly self-realized being avoids meat, they don’t even think about it. They do not gravitate to those things. But spiritual aspirants, even those who are high on the path may eat meat. So I suggest you try to stay away from meat if you can.
Q: Boy, this is type written. (Robert reads) This morning while lying in bed feeling the breeze from the ceiling fan I looked inside myself, (really? I wonder what he saw?) and felt inside myself. I found muscle tension a shoulder a leg and so forth. But if I refused to let names and labels arise the objects do not arise, no ceiling fan, no breeze, no shoulder or leg. There was only changing phenomena without form or name. There was only perceiving. But no individual objects for perception. Those were created by names. I also saw that there was not any of this. I was the witness to all this and I was not the perceiving or the perceived. But I didn’t know what I was? What is the next step in this analysis?
A: This person has a problem they think they are a leg, muscle, shoulder. You’re going to a lot of trouble. When you perceive something do not go too far in that quest.
Simply ask, “Who perceives this? Who is the perceiver? Where did the perceiver come from? Who is experiencing this?” Do not carry on a dialog with yourself for too long. Try to understand that no thing exists except the Self. Do not go all the way down the line where you ask, “What is the next step?”
Tell you in truth is only one step. And that one step is to realize that there is no thing but the Self. There is only the Self and that is effortless awareness. Rest on that. Realize that you are effortless awareness, the Self. Forget about your leg and your shoulder and the other parts of your body. Do not bother to break your body apart. Look at your whole body as a phenomena. That your whole body does not exist. It only exists in mind.
Change your mind and the body will disappear.
Make it simple. Make it direct. “To whom does the body come? To me. Who am I?
What is the source of the I?” And stay in the silence as long as you can. Be silent. Do not go back and think about the parts of your body rather just rest in the silence. Awaken and be free. The whole spiritual quest is one of simplicity, not complicated. You are just to see that you are not the phenomena of the body, of your affairs, of your mind that you are all pervading consciousness. Just awaken to that.
Q: (Robert reads) Question two. While watching these inner phenomena as mentioned in question one, I saw that without existence there would be nothing. I was aware or conscious of, I saw also without awareness. I could not be sure anything existed. Thus sat and chit are in the center there is only a conceptual distinction between them. Existence, consciousness are one. But tell me where was the ananda? (The ananda was on vacation.(laughter)) I also saw that the illusory existence, consciousness, distinction was also not me. I existed before sat-chit. I was the chit before
the chit that observed sat. (laughter) So-to-speak. (chat before chit, chit before chat. (laughter) Is this true? (Students laugh)
Jay (SJ): That’s lot of chit chat.
A: What are you doing to yourself? You’re driving yourself crazy(laughter) Forget about chit and chat. (laughter) This is very complicated. (laughter) Do not be a complicated person. Truth is simplistic. (Someone yawns aloud.) (laughter)) Truth is simplicity itself. It has nothing to do with intellectual jargon. And all these names, Sat-Chit-Ananda, consciousness, absolute reality, they’re all synonymous they’re all one. Do not separate everything into different forms. It just makes it more difficult for you.
Say to yourself, “I am none of these things. I am simply awake. I am the absolute reality. Freedom itself.” And remain in the silence. Do not look for signs. Do not look for experiences. Do not be so complicated. Become like a child. See everything with awe.
Watch everything be alert. Understand it all comes out of your mind.
By working on your mind this way you make the mind stronger not weaker. The mind develops greater powers. The idea in Advaita Vedanta is to totally annihilate the mind. To kill the mind that thinks this way. You do not want to think this way. You do not want to think. You do not want. You do not. You do. You. And nothing. Remain in the nothing.
Q: (Robert reads) Is truth only for few ones? (S: I’m sorry, is truth what?) (Robert repeats) Is truth only for free ones…for few ones? Is truth only for few ones. In other words are there only a few who will become enlightened or know the truth.
A: Again this totally confused. There are not a few ones around. There are not a few around, there are not people and others. There is only one truth. There is only one reality and that is you. There are no chosen people. There is no person who is higher or lesser than somebody else. If anyone appears to be higher spiritually it is because these people have been working on themselves for many incarnations. That is the appearance but the appearance is a lie. For there have never been many incarnations and there really is no work you have to do on yourself.
Just by seeing this you awaken. Just by seeing there is no work I really have to do.
There is no God I have to please or appease. There is no one I have to make happy so that I can be free and I can be enlightened. Try to understand that your real nature is freedom. It has always been freedom. It is freedom right now. Do not compare yourself with anybody else.
Apparently that is what you’re doing. You’re probably reading a lot of books. And you’re reading about people who have become liberated. So you think there are only a few people that are chosen to be liberated in this life. That is a lie. For it means that God chooses certain people to bless and others to curse.
The truth is that you are not alive as you appear. The truth is that you are not anything that you can see, hear, touch, smell or feel. You are not the senses, you are not the doer, you are not searching for anything, you are awake right now. You are free right this moment. And there is nothing that can ever interfere in this. Not even your mind, not even yourself.
Just listen to this: There is nothing that can interfere in your freedom. There is no thing that can avoid your awakening. There is nothing that can stop you. For you are already that, be aware of this! You are already free. You are already bright and shining and all is well.
Q: (Robert reads) Beloved Robert, why do you insist in keeping everyone in diapers. (SJ: What?) Why do you insist upon keeping everyone in diapers?
Mary (SM): Diapers? (laughs)
SH: Babies rather. (laughs) You know, babies do wear them. (laughs) Well they’re complaining that you aren’t letting the true spirit free, by keeping us all in diapers. As if that is where you want us to be? The mother that won’t let the child grow up. (R: That is an interesting concept.) Well that’s what that implies.
R: Yes. Why do you see it that way? Why do you believe something like this. Why do think there is a limit that I can put upon you. You have the choice the free choice to see things as they are. And the way we are is totally perfect. Totally absolute. If you wish to wear diapers feel free to do so. (laughter) You have that choice. I cannot do anything for you like that. You have to see the way you are thinking and the thoughts that come from your mind, in which direction they’re going and put a stop to all limitation.
You must see yourself as an unlimited being. Totally unlimited. Unconditioned.
There is nothing that can stop you from knowing your true Self. There is no one that can do anything to you due to the fact that only the Self exists. And the Self is self-contained absolute reality. All-pervading omnipresent. When something is omnipresent there is no room for anything else. Therefore there is no room to be kept in diapers. There is no room for diapers. There is no room for your body or your mind or your thoughts. You are already free. So drop the diapers and expose yourself as total awareness. (laughter) Q: (Robert reads) Robert do Jnanis exist in every country?
A: Who knows? Who cares? (laughter) (SE: Everywhere but Poland.) (laughter) A: When you are the Self, again the Self is all pervading. Take someone like Ramana Maharshi. When you see his body you are limiting yourself and you are limiting him. As a body he appeared like anybody else. But as a Jnani he was all pervading omnipresent. Therefore the true nature of a Jnani is omnipresent, everywhere. There is no place where he or she are not. Therefore you are thinking when you ask a question like this that a Jnani is limited to his body. Not true. The body of a Jnani is a total fiction. It does not exist. The real nature of the Jnani is consciousness and consciousness is everywhere. So then a Jnani is not only in every country but is in the entire universe. The entire universe exists because the Jnani exists.
The Jnani is never a man or a woman walking around as a body. That is an appearance. So again the answer to the question is the Jnani is everywhere. In every country,
In every universe. SF: You said Ramana Maharshi was all pervading wouldn’t it be correct to say he is all pervading? ) Yes.
Q: (Robert reads) First statements cut the binding cords to freedom. Then following statements start dragging and actually blinding. Why what for? Do you know what he’s talking about?
Jay (SJ): I do. First statements are very cutting, they cut the ties and they’re very, just like what was said. Then the statement gets into a dragging effect of the first part and then the statements turn into actually other types of binding statements. Why does that pattern arise in satsang?
R: Well who sees that? (SJ: I do.) Then stop seeing that Jay. That’s your idea. It’s your concept. (SJ: Things are able to change?) There is nothing to change. Just be yourself.
Do not see things. Try not to see at all, just be. When you are being yourself you have no time to see things. And see objects and come to conclusion about that. To see others and have opinions about them. When you are being yourself you are already free. But when you see things with your mind, the mind creates all kinds of things. Creates meanings to words. Creates worlds, universes, people, everything comes from your mind.
Therefore pull all these things back into yourself. Reverse the procedure. Instead of seeing out there see within yourself. Then you will only be able to see the Self and this will not appear as real to you.
Jay (SJ): Whether it appears real or not isn’t there an objective sense of what’s going on? In other words if you look in any newspapers or watch TV, the news they talk about that a lot, you notice whatever you notice. Or if someone who is spiritually realized or not maybe they don’t have a vegetarian diet and they eat meat, that’s stopping them get here?
R: It depends on the seer. It’s what the person in their spiritual development is able to see at this time, it’s the way they perceive things how they see it themselves.
Jay (SJ): What if a lot of people perceive things as the same or whatever the situation.
R: Well of course people will see those things but this the Maya, this is the illusion.
This is what we all appear to see. The object is transcending that and realizing that that is just an image on the screen of life. And do not take the seeing seriously. Look at it as something coming and something going but feel the truth about yourself. Know who you are and whatever you see will not have an effect on you. (SJ: Yeah and whether it has an effect on one or not, still that’s an observation then, I guess you’re left with something that doesn’t matter.) The observer sees according to his capacity of seeing. (SJ: But we can all see that there are candles over there?)
SD: But isn’t that what you call just collective consciousness like in Maya in a way.
R: Yes. Exactly. We’re all seeing the same things because we’re all coming from the same delusion. There is only one delusion not many delusions. The one delusion means you’re seeing the world as separate. When that delusion is transcended then there is only one. And you are that one and there are no others. And there are no things. There is absolutely nothing going on. But the appearances are like shadows they come and they go. Yet you understand that they are not real. And you have nothing to do with them and they do not bind you or affect you. Just like the snake in the rope. Just like the burnt rope. The burnt rope appears as if you can do something with it but when you try to pick it up it turns into ashes.
So for a Jnani the world appears but the Jnani knows it’s like a burnt rope. It’s all ashes, nothing, images. Like images on the chalkboard. They can be erased and new images appear on the chalkboard but the chalkboard never changes.
Jay (SJ): So the words, the words are just for those who can relate to what you’re saying then at any given time and that is all. They just worth that or what you call…
R: The words are just words. They are totally meaningless but then again some people can pick up something and see the truth involved and go deeper in their sadhana.
But it’s the space in between the words that has the power.
Jay (SJ): Yeah and that is what I’m saying by that piece of paper, is that usually when you give a talk, or talk on a subject, or talk on a satsang, and in the beginning it’s very in incredibly great and then it gets redundant and it drags on, because you’re saying…you’re repeating the same thing in different words.
R: Because you have to hear it that way. (SJ: Well I don’t know? Why do I have to hear it that way.) Put ear plugs in your ear. (SJ: And then it goes on into talking that there is more binding in a sense. So that’s what I’m saying that there is a sense of talking in space, silence.) Everybody listens differently. You see only what you have to see and you hear only what you have to hear. (SJ: Well that’s what I’m confused on, you know?) Who is confused? (SJ: Whatever confusion may or may not arise when I hear this.) SH: What you seem to be saying is that you start out grate and then you deteriorate rapidly. I find it redundant and boring. That is what I’m picking up. (laughter) (R: This is true.) Let’s get it out in the open, what the hell do we have to lose.
R: Because you refuse to wake up I hit you with this again and again.
Jay (SJ): Sometimes you talk about it or someone is telling about their experiences and a lot of the people out there in the audience like they are having some real insight and experience as such that maybe they don’t, maybe it’s not necessary to… (SE: Bore the shit out of them.) (laughter) …that’s what I’m saying. If that is appropriate maybe if they rose their hand, I mean just something to indicate to you a little bit more. (laughter)
R: All is well. (laugh) It’s good for you. It’s good for you to go through this experience. It hits you in the ego. (SJ: That’s right.) The ego becomes mad and disappears and dies. (SJ: Probably getting mad at them.)
Mary (SM): (Tells Robert how many questions are left.) One more.
Q: (Robert reads) First your statements great full of power, shocked… (SH: Who wrote this one I wonder?) …then over and over again dragging it on. (students laugh) Now stop talking and wait. Now somethings dragging yes, no…every satsang.
A: You’re going to hear the same thing again and again until you wake up. (students laugh) You’re going to sit here and go through the same thing and listen to the same words… (SJ: The same pattern.) …until you wake up. (SJ: And then what will happen? And
you’ll do the same thing.) Then you’ll blow up. You’ll disappear. (laughter) It is very necessary to repeat certain things in the relative world because there is nothing wrong under the sun. Therefore the things that come out of me may be important to you or may not be important to you. May help you or not help you. It all depends where you’re coming from.
What you’re seeking. What you’re after, what you’re trying to do. Be yourself. Know yourself. Try not to think too much. All is well. That’s it!
SE: Oh yes we’re going to have a bhandara after thanksgiving, the Sunday after thanks giving. I don’t know what the date is 27th or something like that, keep that in mind.
Mary (SM): We have some more transcripts, this is called “remember to remember,” it is really very beautiful and I have 5 copies to handout whoever would like to xerox off.
R: Any questions about the questions?
SN: It seems in the questions is what I perceive it seems to me there is some kind of confusion between questions and the answers because sometimes the questions or the answers are asked from a relative point of view or from an absolute point of view. For instance is there a Jnani in every country can be asked in a relative sense as if the Jnani. Is there one Jnani and then you answered it in an absolute sense. See so there are many possible answers to the one question.
And also in response to the diapers the question Jay was asking, it’s elementary but there is no such thing as objective reality. Right? (R: Right.) So therefore all the talk about absolute consciousness or pure awareness is just a fairy tale, basically. (R: All the words are redundant.) Well I mean that is how I’m responding to in keeping us in diapers in a sense some people think when you talk about absolute reality or pure consciousness that there is such a thing as objective reality. You see what I’m saying? (R: Umm.) And we use that in reality, there is no objective reality everything is subjective called the mind. (R: Exactly. Yet we have to talk, we have to communicate.) But I’m saying that there appears to be some sort of confusion because this isn’t always kept in mind. We forget that. And then there is confusion, well what are you asking, well are you asking on a relative sense or an absolute sense and that could be really clear.
R: You have to look really deep into the answer that I give. And try to understand what the answer means to you personally. To the one who asked the question. There are some people who ask me a question individually or personally, I can speak to you in a relative sense and there are some people I can speak to in an absolute sense. So I always answer the question differently. But the answer is important and try to understand what it means for you personally. The person who asked the question.
That’s why when five people asked the same question there might get five different answers. So the rest of you, simply realize that the answer is particularly to the person who asked that specific question. But again there is only one answer to all the questions and that is all is well. There are no mistakes, there is nothing wrong, everything is perfect just the way it is. Feel good about yourself. See only reality wherever you look. Do not concern yourself too much with sadhana of any kind but rather come to the conclusion yourself that you do not exist as you appear and that you are totally free right now.SN: When you say the you are free in a sense what that means is that there is no you to be free. That’s what freedom is?
R: Yes. It means that you are totally free. That you never existed as you or I, you are freedom.
SN: See I used to have a tendency to think when you said you are free going back into the relative, thinking that there is something called freedom and there is such a thing that experiences that freedom but in actuality freedom lies in the loss of the self. (R: There is only freedom.) Right, there is no one that is free? Even the idea of freedom I mean the way I see it is only emptiness. And that emptiness is freedom. (R: Freedom, emptiness is synonymous. There is only freedom.) SH: It is confusing when you say you are free because there is no you that’s free?
R: Sure but when I talk to you I have to address you somehow. I can’t say, “Hey freedom.” (students laugh) (SH: It’s a linguistic difficulty. Language is structured in terms of dualism and we’re speaking in absolutes and it doesn’t work.) Therefore when I speak to you like this understand what I’m talking about. When I say, “You are free,” it means freedom is your very nature. And there is no you, but you are free. (SH: But that is sure open to misunderstanding.) It depends on the person. There are some people no matter what I say who realize freedom, absolute, harmony, consciousness. They know that’s the way I talk about it, that’s where they are, it’s different, there is nothing else. And there are people that need to be told, “You are free.” The thing that you think is you, is really freedom. (SH: Well that is the Self. And the me that you think is me doesn’t exist?) That is why you are only freedom.
What you believe is you is freedom not you. (SH: Okay, I’ll accept it.) (laughs) SB: I always thought that consciousness was the soul, that the soul itself is pure consciousness. But you don’t… (R: No.) What is the soul? Soul is supposed to be beyond the mind but there is this soul…
R: The soul is what supposedly is left over when the body dies. (SB: Yeah.) The soul appears to be an entity but there is no entity because that would imply that there is the Self and there is an entity again trying to be the Self. (SB: Because it’s just like on the teachings that talks about the higher planes it’s supposed to transcend the mind and then you’re pure consciousness.) Yes when you transcend the mind there is no soul there is only consciousness. The soul never existed and there never will be a soul. (SB: So you’re saying soul is just a linguistic word meaning freedom, consciousness, God.) No soul doesn’t mean that at all. (SB: No?)
SH: It’s a Christian thing.
SB: Well it’s still an entity that is going to… well if it’s an entity that is going to reincarnate then it implies a subtle mind?
R: Look at soul as the same as looking at the body. It’s just more subtle. The body doesn’t exist, the soul doesn’t exist. (SB: So pure consciousness is even beyond any kind of identification, entity.) Pure consciousness is something that is not effable. (SB: It’s totality of reality.) It is silence. Total silence. There are no words to describe it. (SB: So it’s like in Christian terms, self-abandonment? Or freedom from more or less?) You do not abandon something
that never existed. (SB: It appears to be that you’re not limited, it appears to be that you’re transcending the self and dying to the self.) Why do you want to die to your Self? (SB: Die to the personal self.) Forget about those words, dying. Just know the truth about your Self. That you have absolutely nothing to do with dying, or a person, or a soul.
SH: That’s a spiritual null event but it’s very strong in the Christian condition. (R: Sure.) SN: It’s no difference from the idea consciousness and the Self because in the absolute sense there is no Self and no consciousness. Same thing as the soul, right?
R: There is no consciousness, there is no Self, there is no liberation, there is no non-liberation, they’re just terms, they’re just words.
Fred (SF): We use different words to try to bring down into the realm of the mind and it can’t be thought of in the mind. We use all these words. (R: Exactly.) SH: When he says it’s ineffable, well you just defined ineffability.
SN: Robert in the beginning you said that if we have an inkling of who we are. What do you mean by that because if we have an inkling into who we are, even that is the mind.
R: Of course it’s the mind but you’ve got to start some place. You’ve got to have an inkling and realize that you never were the body, that you never were the mind, that you are not the universe, you are not the world and you are not an inkling. (students laugh) So you have to have an inkling that you’re not an inkling. (students laugh) All is well!
Ed do you want to read the Jnani?
(tape ends)
Absätze ohne Sprecherpräfix gehören dem zuletzt genannten Sprecher — so steht es im Buch, wo der Präfix nur den Anfang einer Rede markiert. Die Zuordnung ist eine Folgerung dieser Ausgabe. Namen in Klammern sind aus dem Text erschlossen: sicher belegt sind SM = Mary, SF = Fred, SJ = Jay, SC = Nate, wahrscheinlich SG = Glen, SR = Jorge. Alle anderen Kürzel bleiben stehen, weil der Beleg nicht trägt.