– Transcript 116
R: Good evening. (Students: Good evening Robert) It is good to be with again. I hope you all had a nice holiday. There is more to come.
Someone asked me on Tuesday if it’s alright to celebrate Christmas. (laughter) I replied, “Do you mean you need my permission?” If you have to ask do as you please.
After all who asks a question like this?
You have to remember that your body is not yourself. And your body is motivated by karma. So that your body will do whatever it came to this earth to do. Yet it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Never think should I do this or should I do that. When you’re indecisive you confuse the powers that be, that will lead you guide you in right action, to do the things you came here to do.
In other words you don’t have to think about hat is going to happen tomorrow or the next day or the day after. Everything will take care of itself. There is nothing in this universe that wants to hurt you. You have to have faith, trust that everything will work out. Everything has to work out because there is only the Self, which is beyond explanation. Yet it is absolute reality, pure awareness. This is what you really are, god, nirvana, all is well. There never was anything wrong and there never will be anything wrong. It’s hard for most people to understand this. Yet you have to start to believe and think that something put you on this earth which makes you believe that you are a human being.
Are you a human being? Is there something that put you on this earth? Where did you come from? Who are you? Find out.
We have been discussing the I-thought. The thought called I. And I have been explaining to most of you for two or three years that the I-thought is not you. All of your problems, all of your anxieties, all of your fears, all of your depressions are attached to the I-thought. And it is the I-thought that brings the confusion into your life. For you are identifying with the I-thought instead of identifying with the Self. Some of us still do not understand this. A question I was asked about this is, “If the I-thought is what disease, lack or imitation really is, then how come people like Ramana Maharshi, Rama Krishna, Jesus and others suffered so much? From cancer, from being nailed to the cross. They were self-realized. So why did they suffer so? Who can tell me that? Who can answer that question?
SU: They didn’t suffer. (SD: Only thought they did?)
R: You’re on the right track. The I-thought that you identify with, suffers. And your I-thought sees these people suffering. You don’t but the I-thought does. Do you see?As long as you believe you are I then you see the I in everyone. If you see yourself as a human being, as I, going through all kinds of experiences then you also see me, Fred, Mary, everyone on this earth going through their experiences. And they appear to be going through similar experiences that you are. When the I-thought dissolves, when it no longer exists for you, you will not see suffering. You will not see good or bad. When I say you will not see I mean you will not see with your spiritual I, anything wrong with the whole universe, you will only see perfection. Yet the body may seem to slightly see the other side. What most people see. But these are like drawings on the chalkboard. They come and go and they have no meaning for you.
Therefore always remember that it is your I-thought which beholds all of the things with life. You have absolutely nothing to do with that. When you see a person suffering. You do the best to relieve that suffering. It is your duty to help. Yet you should always be aware that this is only the I-thought. This is just a superimposition on the Self and has no power, it has no substance, it has no life. It is false like a dream.
SH: How does the I-thought arise?
R: The I-thought never arose. It appears to have arisen just as the water in the mirage, just as the sky is blue, when it’s really not blue. Just as the snake in the rope.
SH: So it doesn’t come from consciousness misidentifying with body-mind.
R: No it doesn’t. That’s a long fairy tale that doesn’t exist. It’s simplicity itself. The I-thought never existed. There is nothing you have to get rid of and there is nothing you have to fight. If the I-thought really existed then you would have to go through periods of meditation, periods of sadhana, you would have to do all kinds of practices, repentance to become free of the I-thought. But since the I-thought never existed and does not exist today or right now, all you really have to do is to awaken. By hearing these words, by coming to satsang, by reading the transcripts, you simply have to awaken. When I talk about the I-thought I’m talking about a lie. But yet it’s the only way to explain the situation that you appear to be going through.
SD: But Robert why is the appearance so strong that millions of people are deceived by it?
R: Because millions of people are experiencing Maya. They are going through the grand illusion. Which doesn’t even exist. No one is really going through anything. When you have something stuck in your mind it always appears like reality. For some reason we appear to have been born. And we go through experiences and then we die. But we were never born and we do not go through any experiences and we never die. There is absolutely nothing happening.
Glen (SG): If the I-thought is like a dream? If the Jnani the eternally awakened one, the dream can’t be, that means the Jnani is eternally awakened, The dream never was?
R: There is no dream. Everyone is a Jnani. Everyone is awakened. But some of us refuse to acknowledge this. We would rather keep on dreaming or playing.
SH: Then if we’re all our consciousness and that is all we are period then it’s sort of a game we play of hide and seek, lost and found? (R: True.) We’re coming on like we are what we aren’t?
R: True but even that is false. (SH: It’s all a pretense?) Because we’re not even here to pretend. (laughter) I can assure you of this; there is no one playing any games, there is no one pretending, there is absolutely nothing going on.
SD: Well why should there be a need for awakening if we’re all awakened and just don’t know it and…?
R: Because I’m sitting here and you’re sitting there and we’re having a discussion about it. (SD: But where does the illusion of a need to awaken come from?) It doesn’t come from anywhere because there never was a need to awaken.
SL: Then we could have gone bowling tonight? (laughter) R: Of course. And that’s the point I was making in the beginning, when someone asked me whether they should celebrate Christmas. What have I got to do with that? If you feel like celebrating, celebrate. If you don’t, don’t.
SD: What about Christmas as the birthday of another Jnani, wouldn’t that be more worthwhile than just another holiday?
R: But after all who is experiencing this? Who is celebrating the birthday of another Jnani? There is only one. There are not two or three or four. There are no others.
There is only the one. So who is celebrating what? We’re celebrating the birthday of somebody we call a Jnani. Why don’t we celebrate our birthday, as the Jnani? Well you say, “Well I’m not evolved as that particular person. “Why do you say that? Why do you believe you’re not? (SD: Because Jnanis know that they’re awake, that’s the difference.) That’s your difference. Know that you’re awake. Why do you want to know if somebody else is awake? Forget about everybody else. Look to yourself. What you see in yourself, you will see in everybody else. You are the one and there are no others.
SH: That is just too radical. The mind doesn’t want to accept it.
R: You know what you can do with your mind don’t you? (laughter) (SH: Not to said in polite company. It’s just too damn simple!) That’s it! That’s exactly true. We want it to be very complicated. We want to get into different dogmas, or we want to get into different type of teachings or we want to read books or we want to travel and meet Masters. We want to do all of these things when all we have to do is sit down where we are and awaken.
Glen (SG): So Robert once you have realized the I, the I-am and also have the realization of the complete nothingness of appearances, why would any appearances other than perfection continue to persist.
R: For when you have your self-realization as you call it, you find perfection and imperfection as two sides of the same coin. We talk about perfection and we’re talking about human perfection. All human perfection will have to experience imperfection. We have to go beyond both of them. Then we are in an entirely different realm. Where there is no perfection and there is no imperfection. And that’s most difficult to comprehend. (SG: The nature of spiritual being is spiritual perfection is it not?) What do you mean by spiritual perfection? (SG: I don’t know it’s just…we’re talking about purity and innocence and just wholeness, a spiritual wholeness and with that consciousness would that translate to what we would call human perfection or human wholeness?) Well this is the trouble of most of the new age teachings. We’re trying to change bad for good. And that’s a grave mistake I believe for most of us. We don’t want to exchange bad for good. For the way this universe is built, it’s built on duality. The universe appears to be functioning by duality. And duality means you have to experience both.
Therefore as you go through the vicissitudes of life, you experience good times and you experience bad times. If you experience all good times in this life, human goodness alone, you have to go through another planet to come back again and experience the other side. The only way to free yourself is to get rid of your humanhood. Totally renounce your humanhood. Become inhuman. Then alone will you become free. But as long as you are trying to make a sick body whole. As long as you’re trying to make a poor person rich, a depressed person happy, that is only for a while. That will work only for a while. If you go into the teachings of Jesus, Jesus healed a lot of people, how many of those people remained healed, we don’t know. Even Jesus said to the sinner, “Go and sin no more or a worse fate will befall you.”
By sin he meant, do not think the way you’ve been thinking, do not live the way you’ve been living, do not believe what you’ve been believing or you will revert back to the thing I cured you from. And of course most of these people didn’t understand what he was talking about. So many of these people reverted back to the sickness they had before.
We have to realize that we are not trying to improve our humanhood. We want to get rid of our humanhood. When we transcend the body it’s a completely new ball game. For the body will go through these experiences. This is why people like Ramana Maharshi, Rama Krishna, Jesus suffered because they appeared in our eyes to suffer. Weren’t they self-realized? Then why did they go through these experiences?
Glen (SG): Well my own belief from what I think is that Jesus consciously chose the crucifixion merely to show that there was no power in this world including death which had any power over him, period. And he could transcend anything because he had a consciousness of one power and one Self. Which transcended as you said anything in this world. (R: But did he appear to suffer?) He appeared to, he came and appeared to suffer, yes.
R: This is the truth about us also. The appearance maybe that we’re having problems. Yet who is having the problem? The mind, the ego, not you. You have never had a problem in your life. There is absolutely nothing going on in your life. But as you identify with the problem like most people do and you worry about it and you fret about it and you go to psychics and you go to healers and you go to this person and you got to that person trying to get rid of your problem, this is crazy, this is a joke.
For you will go through the problem that you have to go through. And even if you’re healed of the problem it will only be for a while. For the pendulum has to swing back. Therefore do not waste your time working with psychics or going through the psychic realms or trying to get healed. Rather work on your own transcendence. Work on your own transmutation. Become free from the bodily experience completely.
Then the body will do what it’s supposed to do but you will be safe. For you are not the body. You are absolute reality, effortless pure awareness. That’s what you are right now. When you try to think about it you spoil it. If you’re able to realize that right this second you are pure awareness then you would be pure awareness.
But you allow your mind to think and tell you things and thoughts keep going through your mind. And you become very human and you go through human experiences. But human experiences do not exist. Your body, your mind, your ego does not exist.
The world, the universe, God, does not exist. You are absolute nothing.
I know when I say that you are nothing it sounds a little scary to some people, for they believe when they’re nothing they’re in limbo. Again you’re thinking about your body. Nothing means no thing. You are no thing that is known to your mind. You are beyond anything that you can comprehend.
This is why I say that you have to have faith and trust so you can let go. If you do not have faith and trust then what you see in the world will affect you. You will be afraid to let go all of your experiences because you have no idea where you will be or what will happen to you. Yet there is absolutely nothing to fear in this entire universe or anywhere else. And if you let go you will be completely free, completely awakened. This is what I mean when I say to you, awaken. Awaken now! I mean let go of all the confusion of all the preconceived ideas, of all the conceptual thinking. Let go of everything. Nothing will happen to you. It is difficult for many people.
Since it’s Christmas we’ll talk a little bit about Jesus. You remember the story of Nicodemus. He was a very wealthy Pharisee and he was afraid to follow the teachings of Jesus. He went to him many times but he was afraid to follow those teachings because he owned land and he owned houses and he owned cattle, sheep. But yet he wanted what Jesus had to offer. For he realized that he was getting older and he was going to die soon.
He wanted to know the truth. He didn’t want his friends and his people seeing him hanging around with Jesus. So he went to see him one dark night and he said, “Master what do I have to to see the kingdom of heaven?” Which means what do I have to do to become self-realized, to awaken. But Jesus knew him and he realized that in this life it was impossible for him to accept these teachings and become free. So he looked at him and he told him, “You have to give everything you own away to the poor and follow me.” And this was too much for him. As the story goes he went away and never came back again.
Now look at your life what are you afraid of giving up? Jesus really didn’t mean you have to give everything away to the poor. He meant that he had to give everything away in his mind and become simple. A poor person doesn’t own anything so he usually has nothing to worry about except getting rich. So Jesus meant you have to mentally let go of all the thoughts and feelings and emotions that have been holding you to this world and to all of your possessions. But Nicodemus couldn’t do this, he couldn’t let go. So you see you don’t really have to let go or give away all of your possessions. It’s all done mentally. You have to mentally renounce everything in this world.
Try to remember again as you hear these things that you have absolutely nothing to do with your body. It is your body that is renouncing, not you. You have nothing to renounce. As you begin to let go of all your thoughts and your feeling sand your emotions, of worldly things, you begin to achieve happiness and peace and love that is not from this world. You become totally free. And remember that your body will do what it came here to do, never forget that that is the appearance. You will go through the experiences that you have to go through. They have absolutely nothing to do with you. This is what I mean when I say, “Let go. Forget about yourself. Do not think that you have to accomplish anything.”
If you can only understand as a human being, everything has been mapped out for you. Everything has been mapped out for you when you were born. Your whole life is preconditioned, preordained. If you can only remember these things when you’re going through your so-called ordeals, problems, situations, it was all planned ahead of time. The exact day when you’re going to leave your body has already been planned out. If you’re going to be rich or poor, happy or sad, sick or healthy. All these things have been planned out. Therefore what do you have to worry about? What do you have to concern yourself about. What is there to fight and what is there to fear.
Can’t you see now that when you get involved in all the things that most humans are involved in, what you’re really doing is you’re pulling yourself deeper into Maya?
Deeper into illusion? Deeper into confusion?
SK: I sense that my participation, my positive, joyous participation in the process, that I have a duty towards that, I have a strong sense of that. Is that an illusion?
R: Who is the I that has this? You say, “I have this.” What is the source of that I?
(SK: I should spend every waking moment investigating that rather than participating?) Yes. You will also participate if you’re supposed to. Yet you will not have the doership feeling. If you’re supposed to participate in life you will. But as you spend your time asking, “Who am I?” or “To whom does this I come? What is the source of the I?” You will find happiness and joy just as you are. Yet your body will participate if it has to participate. But you will have nothing to do with it.
SD: When you say that you are not the doer, in other words the power that you refer to makes everything happen right, so we don’t do anything, is that correct?
R: Correct. There is absolutely nothing that you have power over as an ego. It’s all a joke. You get angry, you get happy, you strive for this, you strive for that, you think you’re accomplishing something, you think you have duties to fulfill. You have all these thoughts going in and out of your mind. (SD: And even the thoughts are predestined?) The
thoughts are predestined, everything is predestined. This is why I tell you the only freedom you have is not to react to your thoughts. Let the thoughts come, let them go, let them do what they want. But do not react to your thoughts. (SD: I thought reactions were thoughts?) Reactions are thoughts when you react, then they’re part of your thoughts.
That’s why I say, “Do not react.” Leave your thoughts alone.
SH: Witnessing is not a thought it’s not an act. (R: It’s not an act.) It’s just a perception. (R: Correct.) SU: Robert if everything is preordained then who does the preordaining?
R: No one. Everything is preordained as long as you believe you’re human. As long as you believe you are a body. But when you get beyond the body, nobody is preordaining anything. This is why I said before karma does not exist, reincarnation does not exist. Nothing exists. There is nobody who has preordained a thing.
SX: Then why are we doing different things. Why are you awakening and why are we here sitting here wondering what happened to us. Why is this different? People are different?
R: Because that is what you chose to do. That is what you’re doing. This is what you want to do. This is how it appears. Yet in reality you’re not doing anything.
SX: Well that’s not true. I didn’t choose to be an oriental girl or you guys choosing to be a Westerner. Who is choosing me to be born as a westerner or easterner? I didn’t choose it?
R: When you believe in the body then there is also a soul. And there is also many different planes of existence. They’re all part o the delusion. So what happens to most people like this it appears before you came to this earth on the astral plane you chose to come back to where you are and to go through these experiences. Because you believe this is what you have to do to unfold. But what I’m telling you is to let go of all this thinking.
And not to think these things. But rather ask yourself, “Who am I? Where does the I come from that believes this? What is the source of the belief?” Which is the I-thought. And when you get to the origin you become the Self, you become pure awareness, all this dream will be over. And there will be no astral plane, there will be no reincarnation, there will be nothing.
SD: So psychic realms and the astral are all part of Maya or illusion? (R: They’re all part of Maya.) So there’s no need to dabble in the psychic realms in order to evolve? (R: Absolutely not!)
Glen (SG): Some of these beliefs that are dualistic…you’re destroying everything that can be stated, you’re saying is an illusion. (R: I hope so.) (students laugh) Is there not some value to traditional beliefs like for me the idea of karma was helpful but the idea of … certain ideas were helpful and I find that under your scalpel I’m left with nothing and I don’t have an identity to go to the next place? So I’m left with all my beliefs shattered but no magnetism towards this dry place that you’re painting, which is nothing.
R: Why are you concerned about this? (SG: Because I want to be out if this pain and suffering of this existence that I experience.) Then let go, go within, find out who is the I is, that is suffering, who is going through all this… (SG: These are actions you’re saying to do?)These are actions you do to become free. (SG: Action is in dualism?) Action is in dualism, you have to do the dualism as long as you’re practicing a practice.
Glen (SG): So you acknowledge that there are some dualistic actions or thoughts that are of some conditional value?
R: You have to use your mind to destroy your mind for some people. It’s easier to say wake up when I say wake up and forget the whole thing but if you want to be confounded, be debatable and argumentative… (SG: I don’t but it’s a strong habit.) Exactly so then you have to do the practice. (SG: Until the point when you’re fed up with it.) Until the strong habit melts, dissolves and you become free.
SD: I also think that your concept of nothingness as being dry and dreary is not really what Robert is saying because he is just saying you are no thing, no thing conceivable to the human mind but consciousness is bliss and happiness…
Glen (SG): That’s a concept though from my understanding we eventually need to let go of all…
R: It’s all a concept really. It goes beyond that. When we sit here I use a lot of these words to make you understand that there is a place where all is well. And there is nothing yo need and there is nothing going on and everything is unfolding like it should. But you will not believe me. So we talk about all these other things. We get into reincarnation, into karma for you are always talking about your body, you’re feeling your body, you’re feeling your experiences.
Therefore we have to have a method, a way that you can use because you are an active person. You can’t just become silent and still. Your mind is very active. Therefore you can use your active mind to destroy itself. By inquiring, “Who am I?” By inquiring, “What is the source of the I?” Where did it come from? Who gave it birth?” And as you abide in this I and you follow it to the source the I will dissolve in absolute awareness, in Sat-Chit-Ananda, in Parabrahman. So this gives the active person something to do. For they can’t go ten minutes without thoughts coming into their mind. Therefore if they turn their mind inward and they practice things like self-inquiry something will begin to give and then you will sit silent.
Self-inquiry is merely a method to bring you into the silence. So you can sit without thoughts bombarding you from all directions. So you can sit without words… (tape break) …will find joy and peace.
(short silence)
See how your mind is? You can’t even sit a minute before you start chattering.
You’re wondering about this and you’re wondering about that. That is why you have to ask yourself, “To whom do these thoughts come? Who is thinking these thoughts?” Every time thoughts come into your mind inquire, “To whom do these thoughts come? Why the thoughts come to me, to who else? I think of these thoughts. I have the fears the frustrations. I appear to have the problems.”
But catch yourself what you’re saying. You’re saying “I” has the problems, aren’t you? Not you but I. So what is the source of the I. As you abide in the I and you follow it
to the source you will come to the conclusion that only the source exists. And what is the source? Silence.
And even as I tell you this some of you are thinking well if I do that, who will run the store? Who will take care of the business? Who will take care of my home? I’ll tell you again, “You will!” And you will take better care of these things then you ever have before.
You will have more wisdom to know what to do.
When you’re not worrying or fearing something then the opposite comes into play.
You will have good ideas, you will have wisdom, you will know what to do, to make anything a success in your life. When you know that you are not the doer. Therefore I say to you, “You do not have to worry or fret. That if I sit thinking, who am I? Everything will go to hell. You are already in hell by believing your are a body. That’s hell. Get rid of that belief. If you can come to satsang and sit without thoughts that is the best thing you can ever do. But as you sit here and thoughts enter your mind that spoils everything for you.
Whether they’re good thoughts or bad thoughts it makes no difference. You want to go beyond thinking. You want to awaken. The only way you can awaken is when you stop thinking.
This is why I always tell you, “Do not believe me, find out for yourself.” Investigate yourself. Find out who you are. You do not have to believe a word I’m saying. You simply have to practice or awaken by sitting in the silence and then you will know for yourself. But if you let yourself get involved in mental thoughts and mental ideas in the objective world then you will seem to experience karma, reincarnation, different planes of existence, that is all a dream. It doesn’t exist.
You are bright and shiny. You are ultimate oneness. Pure awareness. Why not abide in your real nature.
You never know what is going to happen to you physically if you keep relying on this world. People strive for success, they strive to own things. They want to own bigger and better houses. They want to make out they accomplished something. Yet you can be walking down the street tomorrow and a car will run you over and you’ll be dead. So what good was all this striving and fighting for existence and survival.
And even if that doesn’t happen, how many more years do you have on this planet? If you’re thinking in human terms. How many more years do you have left? What was the point of your existence if you have to die? You’ve worked all your life, you’ve strived, you’ve fought for success. You’ve tried to accomplish things. You’ve accumulated all kinds of things. And then you have to die and leave it all behind.
This alone should give you an inkling that the world is a mirage. The world is a bad dream. Get rid of the world. Do not react to the world. Do no fight the world. Do not try to win any battles. Do not renounce. Do not accept. Simply be yourself. Just the way you are right now. Right now just the way you are, you’re neither sick nor healthy, rich nor poor, happy nor sad, you are no thing. Stay that way.
Again you can tell if you’re making progress by observing yourself daily.For instance, Christmas was yesterday. Did you get totally involved in it and forget about your Self? And forget that you are not the doer? Did you get so involved in family and friends? And with the Christmas spirit that you forget all about your Self? That you are the Self, imperishable, illumined, never born, never die or did you get completely wrapped up in the Christmas? This is what I mean when I tell you, it doesn’t matter if you want to celebrate Christmas or you don’t. Whatever you do realize that this is whatever your body is doing. But you are not your body. You’re always one pointed. You always think of the Self, absolute reality. And let the body do what it wants. This is how it should be everyday.
As you go about your business, you go to the bank, you go to work, you go to the bathroom, you eat. Whatever you do remember that you are not the body. Keep this in back of your mind. Observe how your body does all of these things. Without your help.
For instance, I pick up the glass and take a drink. Who did that?
Fred (SF): The body. (R: What body?) The nonexistent body.
R: You see a non existent body? (laughter) What I am trying to say it makes no difference. Do not try to analyze it or figure it out. When I say to not react to anything I mean become still. Don’t say I’m not reacting to something. By say you’re not reacting to something you’re reacting to it. You’re reacting by not believing you’re not reacting. You see what I mean? When you see something going on, be the witness. Do not believe there is a you doing something and do not believe there is no you doing nothing. Both are wrong. It’s erroneous to believe that there is a nothing or there is a something.
Glen (SG): I have a problem with the witness because I spent a long time not being fully there in a psychological way.. being a witness is different from coping out but on a certain psychological level I escape from life. And when I try to find the witness sometimes I walk around like less there than I want to be. I’m not applying the witness state in a correct way because I fall into a disassociation which is a psychological safe place that I have made for myself. And so I’m a little frightened of what you say about whenever you walk around just witness. To me that scares me because I’m afraid of now.
R: This is why I told you before what you should do therefore is ask yourself, “Who believes this? To whom do these feelings and thoughts come?” Follow it through.
“They come to me. I feel fear. I feel this way. Who is this I that feels this?’
Glen (SG): In the midst of activity I’m to do this? (R: Yes.) While I’m doing dangerous activities, while I’m… (R: Yes.) Walking on tight rope while I’m playing my music? (R: Yes.) And you need absolute concentration at the same time, and keep in mind who is doing this?
R: Exactly. And you will find that you do your activities better than you ever did before. (SG: That’s an feasible thing to do, what you’re saying?) Yes. Because you’ve taken the mind off the object. Therefore you will accomplish the object in a more efficient manner.
For you are no longer concerned with the object.
SK: Is that a release from the doer, as the man is saying?
R: It’s a total release from the doer. (SK: The doer is not there anymore?) When you keep concentrating on “Who am I?” You are no longer the doer. For you are questioning the doer, you are questioning the Self. (SK: But it’s being done the way it’s supposed to be done?) Yet automatically your body will accomplish whatever it came here to do. Remember that the body that doesn’t exist appears to be under the laws of karma. Therefore the Lord of karma will take care of your bodily functions and take care of your needs until you awaken to the fact that there are no needs and there is no karma and there is no body.
It becomes paradoxical. When you start discussing it this way. But never the less that’s the only way to talk about it. There is only a body as long as you think of a body. But as you raise your thoughts and you transcend your thoughts, the body will appear to do what it does but as far as you’re concerned you’re doing nothing. There is no one doing anything.
Fred (SF): The body is in the mind?
R: The body is the mind. When there is no mind there is no body. I know this sounds a little absurd sometimes when I talk about it. But let’s go back to your tight rope situation. Imagine you’re walking a tight rope. As long as you believe you are the body you have to be careful, you have to watch your step, you’re looking about falling and everything else. But when you get to the other state, when you know that you are not the body there is no one walking a tight rope because that doesn’t exist. But other people will look at you as if you’re walking a tight rope. Because they are seeing themselves. They’re seeing bodies.
SD: And would the in between step be the witnessing of you’re walking the tight rope and knowing that you’re not the doer?
R: There is really no in between. It all happens at the same time. If you become aware that you are not the body there is nobody left to witness.
SD: Well true if you’re fully awakened but I was talking about from where most of us are to that. That there might be an interim step of witnessing, isn’t that what witnessing is for, is to awaken?
R: Witnessing is to keep your mind still. To make your mind one pointed so yo can become silent and awaken. But if we look at the different interim steps we’re making it harder for ourselves. As far as we’re concerned there should be no steps, there simply should be an awakening and that’s it. And if we can’t do that we should do whatever we have to do to get to that point. Without thinking too much about it.
That’s why so many of us get so mixed up in the procedure. So mixed up in the game of trying to be a witness or trying to practice self-inquiry. Don’t set your mind on these things but do them anyway without thinking about them. As you do them without thinking about them the thinker will become totally demolished. And the thinker will disappear. But again the truth is when you look at a situation it is the body, the mind that observes the situation. But when a Jnani looks at a situation the Jnani sees the Self and he sees the situation also, but as the Self. That is a little confusing isn’t it?
Jay (SJ): If it brings us back to the topic that you first stated…R: Jay where did you come from?) (laughter)
SH: Yeah where did you come from? (R: Who are you?) Yeah, are you?
R: Yes we want to stick to the reality. The reality is that there is nothing going on.
No one is doing anything. When you say, “Well that is a bunch of baloney because I’m doing something.” Think about the dream state. In the dream state you always appear to be doing something. But you know very well when you awaken you did absolutely nothing!
So why is it so hard to look at this world like that? Why don’t you admit that this world is a dream and end it all? And pierce the bubble. But you insist on this world being a dream.
And not knowing about it.
SK: So is it a belief system of this is all there is and there really is no faith in anything else.
I’m totally conditioned to this physical world, my thoughts and it’s all there is, It’s all I know? Did you say just let go of that?
R: I’m saying look at it like you would a dream. You let go of the dream. Imagine if you will that we’re all having a dream and we’re all sitting here like this. Just like we’re sitting here right now. And we’re asking all these questions and we’re going through all of these ramifications and we’re wondering if we can ever wake up, and I tell you, “When you awaken you will know it you will be awake, it’s all a dream.” And you don’t believe me. And even if you don’t believe me you wake up and everything is gone. You’re in the waking state the dream is gone. And so it is when you awaken from this state, you will be in the absolute reality state. Where nothing is happening. Yet you exist, as the Self. And the whole universe is within you. So when you have a problem with the teaching think of the dream state.
Glen (SG): Can a dream character awaken?
R: You awaken because you are the character, that’s dreaming. Don’t worry about somebody else awakening. It’s your dream. Everyone in the dream is your dream. (SG: If it’s a nice dream then you want to wake up, but if it’s a horrible dream then you don’t want to wake up.) It makes no difference you still wake up. And the waking up makes you realize there was no terrible dream that is real and there is no nice dream that is real. They are both impostors, fakes. They both do not exist. And so it is in this world also. Things that appear terrible do not exist. And things that appear nice do not exist. They’re all part of the mortal dream. Therefore awaken and be free.
SH: When you say Robert that all exists within you of course that means the you that you really are? It doesn’t exist in you as an ego? It exists in you as you are always which is consciousness? (R: Consciousness right.) Yeah.
R: Consciousness in this case is like the blackboard. (SH: All this is written on it.) All the images of the world the universe. So the whole universe is within you. Just like the images on the blackboard. But you are free of everything. You are total freedom. (SH: Then the images exist because of you also?) The images exist because you exist. (SH: Umm. But you can’t say you are the images?) No you are Brahman. (SH: You are that which they are written on? Which they appear on?) You are the absolute reality and the images are superimpositions. (SH: How would the images come about in the first place?) They never did. (SH: They seem irrelevant.) They are irrelevant. The whole thing is irrelevant. This whole conversation is irrelevant. (SH: Yeah, okay. (laughs) touche.)
Fred (SF): The last Thursday I brought up a couple of matters. One was; No amount of karma what we call any activity or work can bring about realization, and the other one was what Mohammed had in mind when he told his people not to make images or representations of him, and I got a strong feeling that you wanted me to figure that out for myself.
R: Of course because you’re always concerned about Mohammed or Jesus or everybody else. (laughter) Let them rest. Find out who you are. Jesus, Mohammed are thoughts of your own. (SF: Yeah but I can learn from those guys.) You can learn from those guys but you have to finally learn from yourself. (SF: And be my own authority.) Exactly.
(SF: Thank you.)
SH: Throw them all in the scrap heap. (R: Including yourself.) They are irrelevant.
(laughs) (R: Throw yourself on the scrap heap also.) Right.
Fred (SF): I can learn from them the same as I sit here learning from you, I hope?
R: Well you have to get rid of this idea that you’re learning from anybody. (SF: There is nothing to learn?) We’re just here together to have a great time. To share prashad and to tell jokes, to amuse ourselves. And in the process all of your karma will be all eaten up, then everything will disappear and you will awaken. So don’t get the idea that you’ve got to learn from me or from anybody else. (SF: Because we already know?) Of course everything is within you.
SP: Robert you talked abut faith and trust? It seems to me that those two things are connected to one thing, love?
R: Faith and trust are connected to love? (SP: Yeah.) If you like them to be they are.
Faith, trust, love they’re all the same. But we’re not talking about human love or human faith or human trust. We’re talking about letting go. Becoming completely free.
(silence)
Fred (SF): The way you described the actions of a Jnani at times are so… what he does is automatic and spontaneous and successful. As though those things which a Jnani appears to do will be successful from a worldly sense in the eyes of a so-called human being.
R: Well not necessarily. Again we’re trying to discuss what a Jnani is. A Jnani is no thing. Has absolutely nothing to do with success or not success, or happy or sad or rich or poor. The Jnani has absolutely nothing to do with these things. For the Jnani is not a body that has these things. A Jnani is the universe, the pure self-awareness. So all these other things have to do with human values. The Jnani is free of those concepts. Even though it appears to the ajnani that the Jnani seems like a person and goes through different experiences. But the Jnani knows that there are no experiences and there is nothing that the Jnani is going through. There is absolutely nothing happening in the world of Jnana. The happenings are in the eyes of the beholder.SF: What you said sounded as though in the eyes of the ajnani, what the Jnani does will appear to be successful, it sounded that way?
Sometimes it’s successful, sometimes it’s not. But those are all relative terms. We’re bothered about things like success as compared to failure. But in the Jnanis world there is nothing like this going on. This is why we were talking about Ramana Maharshi’s suffering from cancer, Rama Krishna dying of cancer, Christ nailed to the cross, who observed this? The Jnani or the ajnani? (SF: The ajnani.) The ajnani observed all these things. But to the Jnani nothing was happening at all. Nothing ever happened and nothing will ever happen. That’s the paradox. It appears to happen to the ajnani. So to be a Jnani is not to be successful. You can’t say, “I’m a very wealthy person. I’m a very healthy person because I am a Jnani.” That is all part of the relative world. And the Jnani has transmuted and transcended the relative world. Therefore the Jnani has nothing to do with those terms.
(silence)
(tape starts abruptly with Robert) …this is why you always hear there is only the Self. And that’s not qualified or unqualified.
Fred (SF): Heaven and earth will pass away and my words will not pass away.
R: If you say so. (SF: The words, are pure awareness.) Well how many words have been spoken and passed away? (SF: What was that again?) All the words that Jesus spoke.
(SF: I didn’t say he said that.) He did say that? (SF: Sure.) So are you saying they will pass away or they won’t. (SF: That’s what you tell us that we’re nothing, no thing.) So what about the words? (SF: The words are just a symbol of pure awareness for the atman or Self.) SD: I think he’s talking about when the bible says, in the beginning was the word, the word was I-am? Are you referring to the word in that way Fred? Consciousness? (SF: No that would be the om.)
R: Even that has to go. (SF: All, everything goes.) All of these things are hindrances.
(SF: All thoughts.) They’re all thoughts.
SK: You know what’s really simple when you have a question, don’t ask it. If you don’t ask the question you’ll see the fool that is asking the question. If you let the fool go there will be no questions. It’s really simple. There is no problem if you don’t have a question. (R: You can say that. That’s true. Then you’ll have nothing to do.) That’s right and nobody to do it?
SV: And Robert will be out of a job. ( SH: Fat chance.) (laughter) SX: Then why are we here? (R: Ask yourself.) (SK: Who wants to know?) R: We have some prashad. We have a papaya. Honey dipped papaya.
SD: Umm. Start with Mary.
Mary (SM): Robert. (laughter)
(general prashad talk as tape ends)
Absätze ohne Sprecherpräfix gehören dem zuletzt genannten Sprecher — so steht es im Buch, wo der Präfix nur den Anfang einer Rede markiert. Die Zuordnung ist eine Folgerung dieser Ausgabe. Namen in Klammern sind aus dem Text erschlossen: sicher belegt sind SM = Mary, SF = Fred, SJ = Jay, SC = Nate, wahrscheinlich SG = Glen, SR = Jorge. Alle anderen Kürzel bleiben stehen, weil der Beleg nicht trägt.