– Transcript 123
R: Good afternoon. It’s a pleasure being with you again. In Henry’s lovely home. The dog-house. We’re all in the dog-house.
Does Karma really exist? I know that you can say, “No it doesn’t.” But as long as you believe that you are a body and mind, as long as you feel the world to be real, you cannot fool yourself. Do not lie to yourself. If the world perturbs you, if people bother you, if things annoy you, if you are reacting to conditions this means that you believe you are a body going through these experiences. And as long as you are going through experiences you are in karma. You are experiencing the karma that put you here as a body. It is only when you have realized the self that there is no karma.
Therefore do not go around telling people that there is no karma, it will give them license to do anything they like. Feeling there is no retribution, there is no effect for their deeds. This is not true as long as you believe you are a body. For there are laws of the universe that respond to your actions. Karma means action. And as long as you believe you are the actor you will have to experience the results of the karma.
So in this particular life you are experiencing the results of not only the karma of this experience but of previous lives. Previous lives also come into effect whenever you believe you are the body. There are only two ways to destroy the karma.
One is to inquire, “To whom the karma comes? Who is experiencing this karma?”
and the other way is to surrender completely to God. Totally surrender your life to God.
God is within you as you. You therefore surrender everything to the self. Thy will be done.
You begin to see that as long as you have God to surrender to, you need not worry, you need not fear. Everything will be alright.
There is absolute love in this universe, absolute peace, absolute joy, absolute freedom. Yet you seem to be experiencing other things. Many people or most people are not really happy. They are happy when they get something they want. They’re happy when something happens that is good for them but most of the time, in their hearts they are not really happy. They feel something is wrong someplace. What they’re doing is they’re picking up the unconscious of the universe, of the world. They are picking up all of the things that are going on in this world. They are feeling these things, unconsciously. So they react accordingly usually in a negative way, feeling sorry for themselves, not understanding that they are complete and total freedom.
Everyone is in their right place. Everything is right with the universe and with your life. Whatever happens to you, whatever you go through good or bad appears to be the karma that you have accumulated through past incarnations, that is your experience today. If you want to free yourself again you do not react to it. You do not react to anything in this world. You act spontaneously. You observe things without reacting. You watch, you look and you always go within. Within is a haven and a refuge from Maya, from ignorance. It’s beautiful when you can dive within yourself and touch the emptiness, the truth, the reality. Then the reality that you touch becomes the external world for you.
For what you see in the world today is simply your reality. Whatever you observe, whatever you see is your reality, your personal reality. You therefore do not try to change the condition you rather know the truth. The truth is; All is well, everything is unfolding as it should. As you dwell in this, the external world changes for you.
Everything in this world, in this universe is in a state of flux. The entire appearance of the universe is not a solid. It is energy, pure energy. Energy appears like people, like animals, like trees, like mountains, like birds, energy appears as the universe. But this energy takes shape in accordance with your thinking. You are the one who molds this energy into the shape that you desire. You are always in control. The mind appears very strong. The mind controls most people on this earth. The mind accepts the thought, the thought becomes a reality eventually. Thoughts are things. The mind is like the earth, it grows things.
A farmer has two seeds, one seed is nightshade and one seed is corn. The nightshade is a deadly poison. Compare the seeds to your thoughts. Compare the earth to the mind. The farmer plants both seeds, is the earth going to say to the nightshade, “I do not wish to grow you because you’re poison?” It will grow the nightshade in the same abundance as it grows the corn. And if you do not dig up the nightshade the roots will become deeper, they will spread out. The plants will become stronger and grow in abundance.
If you inadvertently planted nightshade as a farmer and you’ve realized what you’ve done and you wish to grow more corn then you can immediately get a shovel and dig it up. But if you wait for months or years the roots would have spread all over. And you’ll need a bulldozer to dig up the poison, the plant.
And so it is with our thoughts and our lives. We allow ourselves to think certain thoughts about person, place and thing. And these thoughts are like seeds. They are planted in sort of our subconscious mind. Eventually our world becomes a product of this mind.
So, the world that you are experiencing and each one of us is experiencing the world differently, is a creation of the mind that you have allowed to do want it wants to.
You have not stopped the mind you have allowed it to do what it wants. Consequently it has controlled you completely and it’s brought into your life, into your personal world, the world that exists for you today.
How do you get out of this? Again you inquire to yourself, “To whom does this mind come? To whom does this experience come? To whom does this life come?” Realizing that this experience is not you. You are not the person with problems. You are not the 1344
person with disease. You are not the person with lack or limitation of any kind. You are not the person who suffers. You are not the person who is experiencing anything. You are not a person.
You begin to see this. You begin to surrender your entire existence, all of your beliefs, your entire life everything. Surrender everything that you are, that you have been.
Let go of it. Do not allow the mind to rule you any longer. In reality the mind does not exist, karma does not exist, reincarnation does not exist, none of these things actually exist.
But again I have to remind you over and over again if you believe you are the body, if you believe you are the mind, then they do exist, they appear to exist. Awaken from the entire dream. Do not allow this dream of Maya to rule you any longer. You are beyond this. You are above this. Pure awareness is your real nature.
This is what satsang is all about. By being here things begin to happen to you inwardly, you grow spiritually. The old habits fall away. The belief that everything is in the external world disappears. You stop believing that external world can hurt you or give you goodness or badness. You first realize all the goodness and badness comes from the self. They both do not exist only the self exists, only God exists, only absolute reality exists.
All these things begin to unfold in your experience as you look at this world and do not react to it.
Therefore truly ask yourself the question, “Why do I come to satsang? What am I really doing here?” Some of you come here because there is no other place to go on Sunday. You’ve seen all the movies. You don’t feel like going bowling, so you come here. Some of you come here for entertainment. You want to hear a talk a lecture. And you want to hear jokes.
This guy walks into a psychiatrists office with a parrot on his head and the psychiatrist said, “How can I help you?” And the parrot said, “Can you get this God damn guy off my feet?” (Students laugh) That is what you want to hear is jokes.
Fred (SF): I got a joke. A Chinaman walked into a bar with a parrot on his shoulder and the bar-tender said, “Where did you get that?” And the parrot said, “In China of course there are millions over there.” (students laugh)
R: That’s about as good as mine. (laughter) (SF: About the same.) SB: Robert can you the one about the lady who wanted to take her pet dog on the plane to Israel, she was moving? (R: Oh, I forgot how that goes. I wanted to be a stand up comedian.) Sit down comedian. Laugh your way to enlightenment.
R: This guy was working for his father in a garment factory. For ten years he was working for his dad. He finally got into his dad and he said, “Pop I want to be partner. I’ve been working for you for ten years make me a partner in the business.” The old man gets up, stares at him, “Make you a partner you schmuck? You want to be a partner? Do you know what’s what?” And the son says, “No I don’t know what’s what?” So the father says, “Find out what’s what and I’ll make you a partner.“He leaves the factory and he is going home and he is depressed. He goes into a bar to have a drink and he starts talking to a young lady. And she tells him, “Would you like to come up to my apartment?” He says, “Okay.” He goes up to the apartment with her and she says, “Sit down on the couch while I slip into something more comfortable.” She comes out in five minutes with nothing on but a big leather belt. And he exclaims, “What this?”
and she says, “What’s what?” and he says, “If I knew what’s what my father would make me a partner.” Dumb joke. (students laugh)
Life is a joke. Isn’t life a joke? (SM: Yes it is.) But you take it so seriously. You believe in all the things you see. You except all the nonsense of this world. You are not the world. You are total freedom, happiness, joy.
(silence)
What is going on inside of yourself? What do you feel when you sit in silence?
What thoughts come into your mind?
Fred (SF): I tried to - on Friday night I sat for twenty nine minutes, I lit candles for atmosphere and I just sat. And all kinds of thoughts, but I didn’t think about the thoughts. I let them come and go. And the thing that I was pleased about was that I didn’t get sore at myself for having those thoughts. And last night I did about twenty five minutes and because mainly because I didn’t get down on myself for having the damn thoughts. (R: Umm.) Is that more or less…
R: That is very good, of course. (SF: It was enjoyable. There were lots of thoughts but it didn’t get me down.) That’s the whole idea. When the thoughts that come to you no longer bother you, frighten you, annoy you or make you believe something is wrong, that you have to change something, you’ve come a long way. Your thoughts have no power except the power that you give them. You as consciousness give the thoughts their power. Instead of identifying with consciousness you’re identifying with the thoughts. So they become more powerful. They build up the ego. They make you feel as if you are a human being that has to overcome something. That has to do something. That has to make something happen. Yet there is absolutely nothing you have to do. It’s strange that most of us believe and think we have to be active. If we’re not active we believe something is wrong.
Of course you cannot help being active. You will be active as long as you are in this world with a body. You will do things. Yet you will have to come to the place where you feel that you are not the doer and you’re doing absolutely nothing. But it appears as if you’re doing something.
(silence)
If you were only able to realize that the greatest happiness in this world that you can ever desire is already within you. You are already that. There is nothing in this world that can bring you this happiness. It may appear to bring you happiness for a short time then it will change like things do change but the true happiness is you. You are that. The true happiness is within you. Total happiness, total joy, total peace, total love. You are that.
That is your real nature.
People run all over the world in search of happiness, in search of peace, in search of love. If they only knew that all they had to do was sit down and dive deep within the self and they will find that everything that they’ve been searching for is within them.
Fred (SF): Sir, we’re told that the kingdom of God is within us, actually it’s the other way around, is that not so?
R: We’re in the kingdom of God? Both are correct. The kingdom of God is within you and you are within the kingdom of God. (SF: It’s all rolled into one.) It’s all one there is no difference. The only difference is the difference that you see yourself. There is one power, one God, one ultimate reality, one absolute awareness, one nirvana, one Sat-Chit-Ananda they’re all synonymous they’re all the same and you are that. It’s been you all the time. And here you believe you have to read it in a book, that you have to find it in a teaching and you have to find it from a guru but in truth and in reality you’ve been that all the time. It’s you. You are the one.
SL: There is really nothing more to learn?
R: There is nothing to learn at all. (laughter) Who has to learn? The person who has to learn doesn’t even exist. It is the ego that wants to learn. The mind wants to learn.
The ego believes it has to know knowledge. It has to acquire wisdom. But you are wisdom.
Wisdom is your real nature. When the ego is gone then you know because you are the universe. But the one who wants to know is the ego.
Fred (SF): So there’s something to be brought about sometime in the future,which is nonexistent.
R: The ego deals in the past and the future. (SF: The reality is only one.) There is not even a presence. (SF: That would be something of the mind.) The presence comes from the mind, the mind wants to believe there is a presence. Yet there is no presence because this does not exist. What appears to exist at this moment does not really exist. For the only one experiencing the moment is the ego. For if there were a moment there would have to be another moment and another moment. So there is no moment. You have been learning that you have to exist in this second, in this moment, but in truth you do not have to exist at all. You really don’t exist anyway. Yet you feel that you must exist. For you believe if you do not exist you will be nothing.
SH: That’s right, that’s correct. (laughter) (R: Yes, it is.) Um-hm.
R: But you’re afraid to be nothing. So you want to exist as something. You think nothing will eliminate you completely and you will be nothing at all. But nothing at all is reality. Nothing is good. (students laugh) If you’re not nothing you’re something and if you’re something you’re not nothing. When you’re something you suffer and go through the trials and tribulations of life. When you’re nothing there is no-one left to go through anything. Be yourself, be nothing. Nothing really means of course that you’re nothing.
Whatever you can think about you’re not that. Whatever comes into your mind. You are not that. Everything has to go.
(silence)See in Advaita Vedanta there are no profound teachings because there is nothing.
There is nothing profound anywhere. There are no special teachings that have any answers for there are no questions.
Fred (SF): Teachings would be in the mind then the mind is nonexistent.
R: All teachings come from the mind. (SF: It’s beyond the teaching.) Beyond the teaching. (SF: So-called teaching.) There is silence. (SF: Sir?) There is silence. (S:F Silence.) Total quietness.
SV: I forget the name of the gentleman who said to me, but he said something is small and nothing is large because any kind of something has a limitation in it but nothing has no limitation.
R: True.
(Very noisy change of tape)
R: Why don’t you recorders make a tape of silence. (SX: They come that way.) Then make a transcript out of it. (SB: Nobody will buy it Robert. Nobody wants nothing.) (general talk between students)
R: That’s a good point that he has. Maybe that something deep inside the person that realizes that nothing exists. And they really buy the tape to listen to nothing.
SB: We’re the only ones that does though that’s the problem.
R: We all do that subconsciously. But when the ego comes into to play we think we have to put a message on the tape. (SB: You mean buy a music tape and you erase all the music and listen to it the way it came without the music.) Yes. Then you’ll hear the real message.
Then you’ll hear the music of the spheres. (laughter) (SB: But Robert it seems that the mind focuses on nothing into particulars. And focuses to veer the attention. It seems like consciousness is like a diffused nothing until the mind focuses by using the attention. And then it gets into particulars which is emotion instead of no emotion before.) Yet there is no mind to begin with. So how can the mind do all these things? Do not give the mind too much credit. When you think the mind is doing all these things that you just mentioned it appears to be a reality and that keeps you in bondage. Whenever the mind tells you about this and about that whatever they appear to be, immediately transcend it.
SH: There isn’t any mind per se that is just a term that is pointing to something that doesn’t really exist. There are thoughts which occur and arise and disappear and we call that mind.
(R: Umm.) But there is no mind per se?
R: There is no mind per se no. The thoughts are the mind. (SH: That’s right.) SB: But the thoughts are like some kind of energy pulsation. They are so subtle, so delicate that we don’t even feel we’re doing it and yet if you go into it we are giving it the energy, like consciousness is giving it the energy but it’s such a delicate vibration. It’s so hard to control it because it’s so intimately delicate.
R: This is why you have to inquire, “For whom is there a mind?” And you will find out there never was a mind.
SD: And what, you find out is that we never had any thoughts, either?
R: If there is no mind, there are no thoughts. They both come up spontaneously, mind, thoughts. There is no-one to think. To have thoughts there has to be a thinker.
SH: That’s the exact point in which the illusion of the whole of Maya springs forth, isn’t it? (R: Of course.) Uh-huh. Like a jack in the box, it pops out. (R: It happens instantaneously.) SV: Sometimes thoughts are okay without the thinker, for instance?
R: Without the thinker there are no thoughts. For who will think? Where will the thoughts come from if there is no thinker. The thinker and the thoughts both simultaneously come together. They’re all the same.
SB: Robert when there are no thoughts and no thinker there seems to be just unknown.
R: What’s unknown. (SB: I don’t know, just unknown and just unknowable. Not only unknown, but unknowable.) There has to somebody to know the unknown, the unknowable.
(SB: But there is a feeling, there’s feeling of being.) Of being what? (SB: Just being. There is some kind of feeling, I mean you just close your eyes and you just stop thinking. There is still a certain quality that you kind of unravel in a mystery.) Who does all this? The one who does all this should be destroyed.
SH: Bye bye Bob. (students laugh) Nice to have known you.
SB: It’s gone into hiding. Then the ego starts to become a non-doer, you know? Then the non-doing does the doing. You know what I mean?
R: The ego cannot be the non-doer because there is no ego.
SB: Then we try to imitate non-doing so we say, “okay the ego is the cause of all this trouble,” so now the ego as a masquerade says, “Now I’m going to do, non-doing or I’m going to do, silence, I’m going to do meditation,” but it’s still the ego behind there. It’s all slimy, it’s so subtle.
He’s doing non-doing now but he is still there doing the whole, the whole illusion is still held together. (R: Who says so?) Maybe I need a brain transplant. (laughter) (R: Brain transplant.) SZ: One way. (students laugh)
Fred (SF): Something I wonder about from time to time is all these words, there is many different ways to pronounce them. A lot of people say, Ramana, a lot of people say Ramana. A lot of people say deviti or devouti or Arjoona or Arjuna and one night I referred to Shiva’s counsel as poverty and I was told that it was Pavati. Now I can see there is a damn bit of difference the way they’re pronounced.
R: It doesn’t make any difference whatsoever. (SF: Sir?) It makes no difference whatsoever. (SF: Thank you, it kind of worried me, because you seemed to jump on me when I called her Poverty.) Who jumps on you?
Fred (SF): Me. (laughs) Okay. But that’s cool. (students laugh) It doesn’t make any difference.
Like Vivekananda, Vavaikananda all different pronunciations, but then words are nothing but symbols in the first place, even names are symbols, is that not so? (R: It’s like saying, tomato or tomaito.) (laughter) I’m from New england so its Tomato. But that makes no difference. I don’t lie a word of it. I get nothing for it. So it probably doesn’t make any difference. (R: It’s only the great scholars that quarrel amongst themselves. How to pronounce a word.) Okay, that’s good.SH: Makes you a great scholar. (SF: No.) (laughter)
(silence)
R: Catch your feelings, catch your thoughts. Observe your mind thinking and realize there is no need to think. Life is all…(Robert waits for dogs to be quiet) SF: My understanding is that even the Jnani has thoughts but there is no inclination to follow up on them at all because he knows they are something other than his real nature and doesn’t get caught up in them and pays them no attention is that more or less…
R: To somebody else w ho observes, they think the Jnani has thoughts. But there is no place for the thoughts to come. (SF: Oh I see, no mind? There is something I understand called the working mind which has certain knowledge that is useful like, “Where do you live?” The working mind has to know that, so that would be a thought?) This happens spontaneously. (SF: There is no clicker. No dealing with it. No getting into it. It’s just spontaneous.) There are no thoughts to dislodge. There are no thoughts to linger. There are no thoughts that mean anything. There are no thoughts. (SF: Even the knowledge of where you live would not be considered a thought.) It’s not a thought, it’s just an expression. It’s just there, you just do it.
There is no thinking about it. (SF: It comes automatic.) We feel and we believe there has to be thoughts to exist, to survive. But not really. The dog has no thoughts yet it exists just the way it is. It is only we human beings who believe we have to have thoughts, that we cannot function without thinking.
SH: You appear to think, but you don’t really?
R: Why do you think I appear to think? (SH: Because you’re talking. That’s the verbal expression of thought.) And you’re listening. (SH: That’s what you say.) So it appears that I’m talking. But there is nobody talking and nobody listening. (SH: There you go. Now you’ve got it.) Thanks. (SH: Much obliged.) (laughter)
(General talk and joking)
SH: There is nobody there to think.
SB: Think of all the good things to the ego. All but one. Isn’t the ego a major addiction, I mean above alcoholism and drug addiction and isn’t that an addiction that the whole human race is involved in.
R: It is the ego that does all these things. The ego appears to be the culprit. (SB: So we’re all at it, we’re junkies.) Speak for yourself. (SB: I am.) (laughter) R: So let’s play stump the guru. Is there any questions?
Mary (SM): No I looked in the basket and there isn’t a single one Robert. No questions.
(tape break)
R: There is a message from Fred.
S: Oh you typed it ah. You’re supposed to write it.
Q: (Robert reads) Thoughts have been grouped by some people into beta, alpha and theta and one more. With beta the fastest thought in cycles per second and theta is the slowest in cycles per second. Could it be said that theta is nearer to no thought than beta? Some people have trained 1350
themselves to able to function in the alpha mode. Some may have reached theta. The whole question here is if one continued further than theta is it possible to reach the no-thought state?
A: (Robert answers) Theta, beta, schmeta. (students all laugh) What is all this?
SH: That’s a busy mind. (laughter)
R: We’re not interested in psychological jargon. All these things are a part of the mind. The mind comes up with the theta and schmeta and beta. (laughter) It is the mind that gives names to these things. There is no thought to begin with. So you really do not have to reach the no-thought state. You already are in the no-thought state. Find out who says no. Find out within yourself why you need a theta and a schmeta and a beta at all.
(laughter) Why do you need all these things? Who needs this? Who has to go through all this? Can’t you see that all this psychological jargon keeps us from understanding the truth, keep us in bondage. It expands the ego that’s what this does. When we come up with a theta, schmeta, beta, this just makes us think what do we have to do to give it up.
When in reality there is nothing to give up and these words do not exist.
SD: So Robert would that also apply to when you’ve spoken occasionally of the fourth state of consciousness, the others being sleeping, dreaming and waking, there are really is no states of consciousness? (R: Correct.) So you’re speaking on a relative level. (R: Correct.) So what would pure consciousness be, that would not be a state but it’d be…
R: Pure consciousness are words. They are words to make us understand that there is something beyond. (SD: To know the unknowable is that why we use words, Robert?) To try to understand the unknowable. And yet there really is no unknowable.
SH: It’s like the eye trying to see itself. (R: Yes.) Not possible. (R: Yes.) It’s a futile pursuit.
R: This is why it tells us in the scriptures, we have to become like a little child. A little child does not concern itself with theta, schmeta, beta… (students laugh) …with the unknowable or the knowable, with this, with that, we’re trying to get rid of thoughts, a little child just is. And we send the child to school and we fill it’s little head with all kinds of ideas, programmed and then it grows up to be like us. (SB: What a pity.) Forget all these terms, be free. Be yourself.
Mary is there anything else in there? (SM: No that’s it Robert.) SB: Robert what is the teachings of the Kashmir Shiva’s and they call the ego self, the self-contraction. The contraction in the field of awareness.
R: So what do you want me to do? (students laugh) (SB: Why do they use the word contraction?) Because your body contracts. When it’s cold it contracts, when it’s hot you expand. (students laugh) (SB: In the mind is there a contraction of the pure awareness? Is that why they use the word contraction?) Your mind is a contraction of pure awareness when you’ve got a mind to contract but if there is no mind what’s going to contract? What you want is a contract. A contract between you and the mind. That you will not resist and you will give yourself up to no-mind and become free.There are voluminous books available with all kinds of teachings. Who are these teachings for? People want to fill up themselves with life. Life is the universe with all it’s manifestations, Maya. You want to empty yourself out. You don’t want more teachings, more book learning. You want to become totally free from these things.
The only way you will ever awaken is when you are totally empty of all the learnings, of all the teachings, empty of everything. Then there is freedom. But as long as you have one iota of knowledge, it will keep you back. Human knowledge is a death knell for spirituality. All of the knowledge has to be transcended.
Fred (SF): There could be something called knowledge before it becomes knowledge of anything.
Like it’s awareness before it becomes aware of anything that it’s in your consciousness, before it becomes consciousness before it becomes mindfulness. And all these words are just words.
R: And those are more words that you’ve just spoken. (SF: More words?) More words. You’ve added on more words to the confusion. (SF: I’ll take them back.) SH: Thanks pal, you’re always helpful. (laughs)
SV: Robert isn’t it that there are some expressions, terms, which tend to put the mind in abeyance, like “Who am I?” itself or “Being unborn,” or “I am Brahma,” or… you know those expressions that tend to…
R: These words have a tendency to make us feel good. They have a tendency to lift us a little bit. (SV: Slow down the thoughts itself?) To slow down the thoughts. But for a complete awakening the words have to go. There are really no words. As an example self-inquiry brings you to the place where you inquire, “Who am I?” but it is not the “Who am I?” that wakes you up. It is the silence after you say, “Who am I?” and you keep still. Then the time comes when the stillness wakes you up and you become free.
SV: I use that expression, “Arising in the Self,” and who knows what is arising in the self?
However if you put your attention to it little by little your thoughts tend to slow down. You will know what you are talking about, what you want to think about. And the process of thinking slows down… (R: Umm.) …and whatever happens, to know that means… (R: Yes.) …there are self intelligence tends to help with this process.
R: These things help to quiet the mind. They make the mind one-pointed. So you can sit and be still. But really all of the teachings in the universe are simply for you to be still. To be quiet. Then everything unfolds by itself. All the teachings, the exercises, the mental confusion, everything is to make us be still. (SV: So there are certain expressions which are valid in this sense?) There are certain expressions that make you still, more so than other expressions as the words in self-inquiry. (pause) Be still and know that I-am God.
(silence)
R: Catch yourself thinking as you sit in the silence. Catch yourself as you think.
And notice the things you’re thinking about. Are those things really important? (long pause) Do you believe you will not be able to function if you stop thinking completely? Do you believe you have to think?
Fred (SF): You said that, “We do not live but we are lived?” or we don’t run the show.
R: Who runs the show? (SF: Whatever you want to call it? God or the Self?) So you’re separating yourself from that? Are you not? (SF: Sounds like it’s two different things?) Umm.
(SF: Is it true?) Are there really two different things?
SD: Is there really a show? (SF: What do you call this?) Illusion.
SH: Maya. Grade A Maya.
(silence)
R: We get together like this and we realize that there is absolutely nothing in this world, in this universe that has anything to give us or to show us. We are that ourselves.
The whole universe is an emanation of our mind. What appears to be the mind produces the universe. Everything in this universe is a projection of your mind. Everything! So there cannot be you and anything else. For there is no room for the real you and anything else.
What you really are is all pervading, omnipresent.
Mary (SM): Robert is there a universal mind? Are we all…?
R: There is a universal mind to the extent that you believe there is a universal mind. (SM: Oh, Then I wondered if each one formed this universe out of each mind or is it one mind that forms it?) There is one mind. Acting as inlets and outlets of the same mind. That mind can be called God what you’re talking about, absolute reality is the mind you’re referring to. But yet this had to come out of us or where would it come from? (SM: That’s right, that’s right.) We are the knower of universal mind. If we are the knower, we are the creator.
SD: At times you’ve spoken of collective consciousness. For example when I asked can we agree on anything if we’re all creating separate illusions, is that the same mind that you’re referring to and on the highest level would you say that neither collective consciousness nor that universal mind exist?
R: Correct! On the highest level there is nothing but the self and that’s doubtful too, what we call the Self. We give it a name as the Self. That is the name we give it human speech. (SD: Even though it’s nothing?) We call it the Self for want of conversation. But in truth, in ultimate reality there is nothing that can be the self. There is nothing that can be universal mind.
SD: Are you saying in other words, that there is nothing to which a name can be given?
(R: Yes, correct. As long as we can name it, it doesn’t exist) Name it and claim it. (laughs) (students make comments with laughter)
R: So just be happy, forget everything. Stop thinking. Enjoy.
We have some prashad. You like eating pershad or prashad? (students laugh) (prashad continues as tape ends)
Absätze ohne Sprecherpräfix gehören dem zuletzt genannten Sprecher — so steht es im Buch, wo der Präfix nur den Anfang einer Rede markiert. Die Zuordnung ist eine Folgerung dieser Ausgabe. Namen in Klammern sind aus dem Text erschlossen: sicher belegt sind SM = Mary, SF = Fred, SJ = Jay, SC = Nate, wahrscheinlich SG = Glen, SR = Jorge. Alle anderen Kürzel bleiben stehen, weil der Beleg nicht trägt.