– Transcript 141
(Empty Mind)
R: Good evening. (Students: Good evening Robert.) It is good to be with you again. I welcome you with all my heart. I love you all. All is well.
Many of you have been with me for quite sometime now. And if you’re not a devotee if you are a disciple or a seeker - I’m not going to into definitions of these things tonight, it’s in the lessons - But if you’re a disciple or a seeker you’ve heard everything.
And it is boring for you after a while. We hear the same stories perhaps, same teachings, same jokes. Yet a devotee is never never bored. Due to the fact they listen with their heart and not with their head.
Think of all the great Sages and all the great Masters that have had devotees and disciples and seekers around them. Take for instance Jesus. He used to teach, “Seek ye first the kingdom of God and it’s righteousness and all these things will be added unto you.”
You can imagine how many times he said this to new crowds, to new people and the devotees with him heard it again and again and again, over and over again. “I am with you always even unto the end of the world.” New people came around him they heard these teachings for the first time. Yet the devotees with him have heard it again and again.
Take Bhagvan Ramana Maharshi. He had 30 or 40 devotees that were with him for over 40 years. They would come into the hall twice a day and just sit there. Watching all the tourists, all the newcomers who would come in. Asking the same questions over and over again. His devotees knew by heart what he was going to say. They could have said the same things he did because they’d been hearing this for 40 years. Think if you were with me for 40 years. Doing the same thing again and again and again.
Disciples and seekers need new life all the time. They can’t sit still too long. They have to go where the action is. A new teacher comes to town they think they’ll hear something profound from this teacher. Something special. Because they haven’t seen this teacher before. They go traveling to different states, to different countries to see different teachers. But they can only stay for so long before the ants in their pants begins to bite.
And they have to run to another teacher.
Again this is because they’re listening with their head. They’re listening to words.
They think words are going to do it. Words are not going to do anything. Words are words. It is also true that if a devotee hears the right words coming from the Sage, the words will also enlighten them, because they are not listening to the words as words. They’re listening to words as God. Every word that they hear coming from the Sage to the devotee is the word of God manifested. But the disciples and the seekers do not see it that way. They take everything literally. And they want to hear new words, new stories, new jokes, new teachings.
Take the Buddha. The Buddha traveled with his devotees, through the jungles, through the woods, over mountain paths, came into villages into towns. Taught the same teachings over and over again. Everything is Maya. Only the Self is real. Think how many times the Buddha’s devotees heard this. Did they become disillusioned, did they become bored? Of course not. For they realized that they were not dealing with a human being.
It is written in all the sacred scriptures, the Upanishads to be around the Sage is sufficient. Nothing else is necessary. No teachings and no lectures are necessary. Yet here in the West talking becomes very meaningful to most people. For in the West people were brought up to listen to people talking. Beginning with the television.
Before you can read, before you can walk you’re put in front of a TV to keep you quiet. While your mum cleans the house. You’re about 3 or 4 years old and you’re put in front of the TV and started watching cartoons. Then when your mum turns on the soap opera’s you watch those. This is even before you got to school. So your brain is already being bombarded with words. You consequently grow up believing that words are powerful. And they are powerful to the people who have been brought up thinking of words.
In metaphysical classes you learn that words are things, words are power, words can make you feel unhappy or upset. And this is true to the people who have been brought up listening to words. Yet words in themselves have no power. It is the person who speaks the words that has the power.
Therefore if they listen to the words of a Sage in the right way with their heart, their heart will open up and they become liberated. Think of these things. The devotee can be with a Sage for weeks and months without a word being exchanged. Years, without any words being exchanged. And think of the routine that you go through.
Many of you tell me, “Boy I wish I lived in an Ashram.” You wouldn’t like it, you couldn’t take it, some of you. It’s no bed of roses. It sound enthralling when you read about it. When you read about those people who were present in front of Ramana Maharshi and you wish you were one of them. Yet if were one of them and you are where you are now you would run away from there in a couple of weeks or a couple of days. You wouldn’t stay. For it’s the same routine day after day after day after day.
In the old days at Ramana Ashram you used to get up at 3 o clock in the morning.
Everyday for 40 years. No holidays. Go through the day sitting on the floor, on a stone floor. How many people can take something like this. This is why I always say, “Do not kid yourself.” Spiritual life is not really a bed of roses. It is the actual surrendering, the giving up of the ego. Not doing what the ego wants. Not wanting to be entertained.
It’s like the rich people in India in the old days, the Rajah’s. They used to buy the services of a guru. The guru would live in the palace. But he was always summoned at the
Spiritual life is not a bed of roses.
Nisargadatta Maharaj said, “When I was 33 years old I found my Master and I listened to every word he said with my heart. I took every word literally. Surrendered to him entirely. At the end of three years I was liberated.”
Many of us here tonight always talk about being liberated. When am I going to be free. Take a look at your life. The way you live daily. And you will see why you’re not liberated. If you let go completely and had no desires or wants or needs in this world then you would awaken. For when there is nothing to hold on to, you become free. But as long as you can hold onto something in this world whether it’s person, place or thing. As long as you’re looking to have fun, to run here to go there and you believe these things are very necessary for your livelihood for your unfoldment — you say, “I couldn’t do without this, I wouldn’t know what to do,” can’t you see now that this is what is holding you back? Your lifestyle is holding you back.
Your lifestyle maybe a sickness as an example. As long as you believe in the sickness and you’re always talking about your sickness and you think your sickness rules you and overwhelms you and is going to kill you in the end then the sickness has become your guru, hasn’t it? Because it is ruling you and it has power over you. It tells you how to behave, how to cry, how to feel sorry for yourself.
But look at the life of Rama Krishna, Ramana Maharshi many others. They didn’t care about what the body was doing. What the body was going on with. They always were the Self, absolute reality. They were always involved in effortless pure awareness. 24 hours a day. Let the so-called body do what it wants. If it wants to be healthy let it be healthy. If it wants to be sick let it be sick. But this had absolutely nothing to do with them.
Now compare your self to that.
When some of you catch a cold I get telephone calls, “Oh I’m dying I ache all over.
Can you help me. Can you heal me? I don’t know what I’m going to do.” You are attached to the body. And you feel the body is ruining you. It’s causing you to react a certain way.
The same is true with finances, funds. You have certain beliefs over these things. You believe well if you’ve got a lot of money in the bank, you feel safe and secure. If you have money saved, in safe deposit boxes you feel safe and secure. But if you ever have to use that money or spend it you become insane. Your security is gone.
Can’t you see now how that holds you back from enlightenment? The money has been your God all these years. And when you think you have to spend to or get rid of it somehow or it gets stolen from you or you lose it somewhere, you’re lost, you’re gone, you’re finished. The money has been your God, your Master.
Take companionship. Same thing. You believe you have to have certain companions, certain friends so you can have fun. And if you’re not doing something, you’re always bored and unhappy. Can the Self ever be unhappy, can the Self ever be bored? Who is bored? The Self? Of course not.
There are many of you that have to do one thing after another. One thing after another, you can’t sit still. You are running from a movie, to a restaurant, to a picnic, to a bowling alley, one thing to the other. You do not want to get caught in the place between things where there is absolutely nothing to do.
While you’re watching the movie you’re already thinking what you’re going to do after the movie because you don’t want to get caught in the space in the middle where there is nothing to do. For you will have to face yourself, confront yourself! And see there is nothing to do and you don’t want to do that.
Can the Self ever be lonely? Can the Self ever be afraid of losing something or gaining something?
The Self is the Self. It is self-contained absolute reality. This is what you are. Yet no matter how many times I tell you this when you step out of the door you get caught up in relativity. In Maya. The world makes you react. When you come to class you feel good — as some of you tell me — but when you leave you have to go home and confront your job, your relatives, the world. You become bored frustrated.
Again like when you come to class you hear me speak about the same things again. You always think, “Maybe I’ll come to class and maybe Robert will say something new. Something more profound than he ever said before.” Truth is not profound. Philosophy is profound. Psychology is profound. But truth is simple.
When I say to you, “All is well and everything is unfolding as it should,” that should suffice. Your heart should have a warm feeling and you should feel that everything in your life is resolved. That there is nothing to fear and there is nothing to fight. But instead some of you listen to me say, “All is well and everything is unfolding as it should,”
and you’re thinking to yourself, “what is he going to say now?” More words of wisdom.
But the devotees do not think this way. The devotees do not even listen to me with their ears. The devotees are me. We’re one. And whether I sit still for an hour or whether I talk or whether I sneeze, whether I stand on my head it’s all the same. There is no difference because devotees do not come and listen to a lecture.
Therefore think, where are you coming from? Where are you coming from? What is going on inside of yourself? You say, “I want to be enlightened. I want to be self-realized.
I want to awaken. I’ve been with Robert for two days now and I haven’t awakened yet. It’s time to find another teacher.” There is no time. Forget about time. Have no reason for coming here. Just be here. If you have a purpose you will always be disappointed. If you have no purpose you are already awake.
What do you want? What are you looking for? That should be a blank. You want absolutely nothing and you’re looking for nothing. You have to be very honest with yourself. You have to really see where you’re at, what you do with yourself. In the last analysis awakening is between you and your Self.
That is what I mean when I keep telling you things like, “Be asleep while awake.”
You are asleep to this world just like you were asleep to the sleep world and you awoke to this world. It follows then that when you are asleep to this world you’ll awaken to the real world.
So again, how do you become asleep to this world? By total surrender to the Self.
When you totally surrender to the Self, to God you actually mean I’m giving up all of my fears. I’m giving up all of my desires. I’m giving up all my wants, my needs, my wisdom so-called, my knowledge. You give it all up. Then you are asleep while awake.
But if you’re trying to change things or fix things and make things go your way.
And running all over looking for new teachers, looking for new books. Having philosophical discussions, arguing, debating, you are not asleep to this world. That is like when you are in deep sleep and having a dream. And you become so caught up in the dream that no one can tell you it’s only a dream. When you begin to let go of the dream you fall into a deep sleep without dream and then you awaken to this world. When you let go of this dream world by surrendering, by letting go, by developing a great humility, by practicing divine ignorance you have to awaken. You have to. For you’re no longer holding on to a thing, then you become totally free.
That is why you can always figure out for yourself how far you’ve come along the path. Check yourself out daily. Take it one day at a time. Just take today and see what you’ve been involved in today. Where are your interests? If you think of God, God will think of you. Which simply means if you surrender everything to the Self you will awaken as the Self. But if you’re amused at this world and you take it seriously. And you think the world has fun for you, games. And has things to offer you then you’re stuck in Maya.
I know a lot of you don’t like to listen to things like this. For it means that you have to give up everything. But I’m being quite truthful with you when I tell you this. Yes, it means you have to give up everything. If you want liberation. This is really no joke. You have to give up everything you’ve ever believed. You have to surrender your entire life.
I’m not saying that you can’t go to a movie or you can’t go to a dance or you can’t go to an opera or you can’t enjoy yourself. But you have to be aware of who the enjoyer is.
In other words do not get caught up with the things that you’re doing. Always try to remember that the body will do the things it came here to do. Yet it has absolutely nothing to do with you. Check yourself out.
Try to realize that when you’re sleeping and you are in deep sleep you have no wants, you have no desires. You are not trying to get rich. You are not trying to get rid of a disease. You’re not trying to find boyfriends or girlfriends. You’re not trying to run around enjoying yourself, the beach or whatever. You’re in deep sleep. That is why when you getup from deep sleep you’re happy. The first moment you get out of a deep sleep you feel refreshed. You feel good. Check yourself out and see if I’m wrong.
I don’t care what problems you may think you have when you wake up from a deep sleep you always feel good. Until you start thinking! As the I comes to the brain. You become cognizant of the world, the universe and your body. But prior to that you felt wonderful. So this proves to you that when you can do this during waking state then you’re asleep while awake. If you can surrender everything. Give up everything then total happiness will come by itself.
Remember that when you are totally surrendered you will feel a greater happiness, and a greater joy and a greater peace.
This is an important point.
Many of you believe and think that when you go to parties, when you go to an opera that when you go to a movie or when you go to a dance or when you go to a bar, wherever you go this gives you enjoyment. Yet the enjoyment disappears when you stop, doesn’t it? When the thrill is gone and you have to go home you do not feel as happy any longer. While you are in the bar drinking yourself to death. You’re cracking jokes with everybody, laughing, making believe you’re having fun. But when you have to go home, you feel depressed. You feel as if there is something wrong.
This shows you that the things of this world never gave you lasting happiness. For if the movie or the bar or the drink, the friend made you happy for a while, made you feel good for a while and when the friend went away or when the drink wear off when the movie has ended you’re back to yourself alone. The happiness that this gave you is gone.
It’s like going to a laugh club. Where there are comedians. As long as the jokes keep coming you’re happy, you’re laughing hysterically. When it’s over you have to confront yourself once more. You have to look at yourself. You’re no longer as happy as before.
So I say to you again the things of this world can never give you lasting happiness.
Lasting happiness is your very nature. But your nature has been covered up with ignorance, Maya. So you believe that the world can bring you happiness and joy. You partake in this world and you become happy for a while, unhappy for a while. You feel good then you don’t feel good. You go through all the ramifications of life like everybody else.
But the wise person, the Jnani doesn’t have to run all over the world looking for teachers or read new books or look for new entertainment. The wise person realizes that all these things are within himself or herself. That the great reality is within himself, they are the great reality. There is no secret.
You are the one. You have always been the one. And there is a greater happiness within you than anything you can find in this world. But you have to be true to yourself.
And again you have to surrender totally and give up everything that has made you happy in this world, so-called happy, not physically, mentally.
Feel free to ask questions.
Fred (SF): Something I’ve been thinking about. On Thursday the 12th there was a discussion on karma and my understanding is that everything that happens has happened and will happen to this psychosomatic apparatus called Fred is referred to as karma. And what happens is the things that I thought were good and the things that I thought were bad are effects and they have a cause.
The implication is that the cause is something that happened in the past. This happened to this particular psychosomatic apparatus in which case I might think when something good happens and I’m being rewarded or if something bad happens and it might be that I’m being punished.
But I wonder if it’s not this particular individual who … these things just happen and I’m not to feel rewarded or punished and these things do just happen. And the famous saying, “As ye sow so shall ye reap,” I wonder if it might be more accurate to say, “as it be sown so shall it be reaped,” not by any so-called individual. Any thoughts on that?
R: The wise person realizes that karma exists only for the body, for the ego. Therefore the wise person inquires, “To whom does this karma come? Who is bound by karma?”
And you will find out not you. But the ego. The I-thought is bound by karma. Therefore you should act as if karma doesn’t even exist, even though you are bound by karma act as if it does not exist and inquire, “To whom does it exist? Who has it?” If you try to do the other way as you just explained you have a battle to fight on your hands. Because when you discover why something happened to you — that you did something before in a previous life and now this is the effect — you will lament on this, become upset over it, think about it too much and wonder what you did before in a previous life. You’re wasting your energy by doing this.
The proper way is to realize, “For whom is there karma?” Not for the Self. Not for the absolute reality. Not for pure awareness. Only for the ego and there is no ego. So where is the karma? If you follow it through this way you will feel immediately happy and joyous. For you have come to the conclusion and realized that the ego does not exist. If the ego does not exist karma does not exist and you’re totally free. And you’re born again immediately, into a new life. No matter what happened in the past. No matter how many mistakes you made. No matter how evil you have done things or what you have done to people in the past, do not think of this. But rather think, “For whom does this come, this belief of karma and doing. Am I the doer. Am I the person who suffers from karma and have to go into the effect of things?”
I remember many years ago I was in Miami, Florida. I went to a theosophy meeting. And it was filled with about 40 or 50 old people. Some were crippled, they were always talking about their problems and they all believed one thing, “This is my karma,”
they said. “I have to go through my karma. I have to suffer my karma. There is nothing I can do I have to accept it.” That’s a bunch of baloney. Karma does not even exist. The ego does not even exist. The doer does not even exist. But to discover this for yourself you have to go back and inquire, “Then to whom does this come? Who feels these thoughts?
Who feels depressed because of karma? Who believes that they’re sick or poor or has some problem and this is karmic in effect? Who believes this?”
When you find out who believes this and realize that the ego who believes this does not exist, you will become totally free of the whole bowl of wax and find eternal happiness and peace.
Fred (SF): It might also be said that nothing in duality exists? (R: Nothing with what?) Nothing in duality.
R: Duality does not exist at all. There is no duality in truth, in reality. Duality is for the relative world. But there is no relative world. So for whom does the relative exist? You always go back to the basics.
If this world were real then you would have a battle on your hands. To overcome karma, to overcome past deeds and to fight for your rights and stick up for this and stick up for that. And you would have to run all over the world looking for new teachers all the time. You would become bored with the old teachers. You’d have to look for new books.
You would become bored with the old books. It would never end.
When you realize and when you see, “For whom is all this? For whom is this world? For whom is this suffering? Who goes through this?” And if you’re really sincere you will say, “I do.” But then you will come to the conclusion, “The I does not exist. The I-thought never existed, never will exist. Has no substance, no birth,” and you will find yourself totally free and liberated.
Jorge (SR): Robert when you’re doing self-inquiry sometimes, “To whom does this happen, etc., etc.,” what you’ve been saying. Sometimes I don’t answer the question there is no answer. Can one just forget the - you know the way you explained self-inquiry is sort of a two step process. Do we just let go on the second step and just be quiet?
R: Both ways are correct. Depends how you feel at the time. Many times you want to go through the whole thing. By saying, “To whom does this come? It comes to me. Who am I?” And keep still. Other times you may say, “To whom does this come?” And realize that I does not exist and not go any further than that and just stay there. (SR: Because the way I was so stuck in the way you taught it, I would almost try almost to create an I then try to get it to go to the source, I know this is silly.) You do what you feel. (SR: Yeah.) At the time. Many times you will find that you can just sit down and not ask a question at all. There is a
Jorge (SR): Doesn’t at times there exists a false sense of security? (R: Time?) No, no. Doesn’t a false sense of security exist at times? At times you sit down and the I is just really relaxed and it’s not agitated and it’s almost a lazy I. It doesn’t want to do self-inquiry because it feels secure. Does that make sense what I’m saying? And yet there is still duality because one is still identified with a peaceful I and then one gets agitated later on.
R: You have to go through that experience and then realize that it doesn’t work and drop it. (SR: Right but when the peace is there shouldn’t…what I’m saying is shouldn’t at times even if you feel that peace shouldn’t you just continue with self-inquiry?) No on the contrary. (SR: When you feel that peace?) On the contrary. If you’re feeling real peace, the feeling is beyond self-inquiry. Self-inquiry is the method that you use to find the peace. But once you feel the peace abide in that peace. Try to go deeper into the peace. Dive deeper into the peace. Go beyond the peace.
Jorge (SR): But it feels to me sometimes that there is a little I inside diving into the peace so there is still a me…it’s only temporary because then later the I goes in and the I goes out. Does that make sense? (R: Yes!) There is no dissolution.
R: It makes sense because you believe it. (SR: Right.) Therefore if you believe that then you have to work on yourself to get rid of that thing. If you believe you’re in false security when you find peace then you have to ask yourself, “Who feels the false security?
To whom does the false security idea come?”
SD: What about asking yourself, “Who feels peace?”
R: Well if you feel the peace is not real then you can ask yourself, “Who feels peace?” (laughter) (SD: Because as long as you can feel it there is duality, is there not?) If you feel duality when you’re feeling peace then you should ask yourself, “To whom does this come?” (SD: Don’t you have to transcend anyone or anything feeling peace and just be peace?) You will know when you become peace. You will know whether it’s real or not. As long as you have an idea that it’s not real then you have to work on yourself. But when the real peace comes to you everything else will disappear. You will feel omnipresent peace everywhere. You will feel the whole universe as the peace you’re feeling and you will know.
But if you have to ask the question, “Do I feel peace,” then it’s not peace.
SD: No I was referring to asking not, “Do I feel peace,” but “Who feels peace?”
R: Well if you have to ask the question then you’re not feeling the real peace. As long as you have to ask that kind of a question then you still have to work on yourself. But as I said when the real peace comes you’ll know it. For it will transcend everything. (SD: Including feeling?) Yes, everything. (SD: Because there will be no one to feel.) You will be totally free, yes.
Jay (SJ): Don’t get hung up on that one either. (laughter) (R: Well there will be no one to get hung up on.) (laughter) Yeah.R: You will know if there is someone to get hung up on if you’re feeling it with the I. Then you have to work on yourself again. But when you really transcend and when there is real peace you will not even know the word peace. You will become the ineffable peace which passes all understanding and you will know.
SL: Robert, before did you say that if we wanted to wake up we should just tell ourselves to “Wake up now!” In spite of like predestination and all these other things did you say that we should just tell ourselves to “Wake up now! Wake up!”
R: You can talk to yourself that way. See we have different moods. We feel different at different times. There are times when you can tell yourself, “Wake up! Awaken.”
And talk to yourself that way. There are times when you have to practice self inquiry.
There are times when you could just be the witness and watch yourself. There are times when you practice the I-am meditation. It depends on your mood.
SL: Is there something that we should just tell ourselves to, “Wake up now,” instead of just letting it - I have tendency to be more matter-of-fact — if I wake up I’ll wake up whatever I do but I think, was there something that you said that we should still tell ourselves to wake up now instead of letting it happen whenever it happens?
R: If you’re in that frame of mind. See when I talk to you about different methods do not take me very literally. Do no think that you have to work on this method forever.
This is why I share all these methods with you. Feel in your heart what you have to do when you wake up in the morning. Let your heart tell you what to do. Do not make it very hard on yourself. That you have to do a certain thing and you don’t feel like doing it.
In the beginning stages many people will become disgusted with practicing self-inquiry. So let it go for a while. Inquire, “Who becomes disgusted?” (students laugh) Do whatever you have to do to become free. I can’t tell you to say, “Wake up now!” all the time. You walk around saying, “Wake up now. Wake up now.” There are days when you don’t feel like waking up. (students laugh) Be yourself. Do what comes naturally. Do not become a slave to self-inquiry. Inquire, “Who is becoming a slave to self-inquiry?” (students laugh) (Robert takes a drink and says) Bah, this tastes terrible. (laughter) SR: Robert some people say that a useful crutch to freedom is the idea of what the Buddhist call a bodhichitta or the idea of service to others versus, you know, think about others rather than yourself. Do you think that is valid? It seems like Nisargadatta says that is sort of phony?
R: For some people it is valid. There are many people who cannot practice self-inquiry. Who cannot come to the conclusion that the I-am is the only reality. So these people should be of service to humanity and do things for people rather than think of themselves all day. (SR: So you think it is a useful crutch?) For some people. You have to do whatever you feel. If you feel by being of service this will help you in your unfoldment by all means do it. Do not become the other way and feel that you have license to feel higher than other people, to feel better than other people or think you’re something important and hurt others by doing certain things. Rather let go of all those feelings and all those
Jorge (SR): It’s just that in the Yogi traditions they talk about the yamas, niyamas… (R: Sure.) …Christian, you know and somebody spoke about being very pure and sometimes that is all one can really do in a situation if one wants to act a certain way then he’s following the rules sometimes?
R: This is why there are different levels on the path to awakening. This is why I said self-inquiry is for mature souls. Advaita Vedanta is for people who have practiced all these things in previous lives perhaps. And they’ve gone through all the yamas and niyamas. They’ve gone through all these teachings, rajah yoga, everything, kundalini yoga.
Jorge (SR): Many of the enlightened teachers don’t seem to have practiced much of that at all considering all the corruption, you know, all the enlightened in the world. I mean I understand what you’re saying but it’s sort of rare. Most teachers break all the rules and say that’s…
R: What do you care what most people do, what most teachers do? Do not concern yourself with what most teachers do. Concern yourself with the work at hand. Working on yourself, awakening. If you are sincere within yourself you will never be attracted to one of those teachers you’re talking about. (SR: In my case I do self-inquiry but I have to work hard to be a good person at times.) Well don’t work so hard.
Jorge (SR): Well I think that it can be something I need to learn you know, I mean to learn to control my temper when I feel like hitting somebody or slashing somebody’s tyres when they cut me off. And I’m attracted to self-inquiry but yet I’m not above all the people in the world that are just struggling with the basic issues, you know. You’re saying it’s for mature people, I love self-inquiry and at the same time I don’t find myself very much more mature than anybody else, you know on a yama and niyama level.
R: Then you have to work with that. (SR: Yeah.) By all means work with whatever you have to. Do both. That is a good point. We should never fool ourselves. There are many people that become Advaita Vedantists and whatever they do they think is right.
They believe I’m not doing this. They steal form other people and say, “I’m not doing this.
(students laugh) This is the ego. They blame the ego for everything. I’m beyond all this.”
They go shop lifting in the store, they say, “This is not me. This is the personal I doing all this. And I’m not the personal I, the personal I doesn’t exist. Nobody is doing it.” (students laugh)
SV: Yeah but they stop saying that when the body gets put into gaol. (R: Then they say, “Who is going to gaol?”) Then they say, “How come this happened to me?”
SP: As long as they don’t have to do the time, who cares?
Jorge (SR): Robert if you have an addiction to something is it useful to go straight against the addiction as a part of a process or how do you handle this strong desire, talking about what you spoke about before. (R: That’s the hard way.) If you really want something in the world could you just do what the monks do and give it up as an exercise? Or should we indulge or do what Rajneesh said or…
R: Most of the monks you’re speaking of are worse than most of the people in the marketplace. Because they are in their bodies trying to stop from doing all of these things, yet they can’t. So they keep it sublimated. They have all these evil thoughts, they have lust, everything but they keep it sublimated.
I remember many years ago I went to a Zen Buddhist temple in Japan, Kyoto. And all the monks, not all the monks most of the monks at night time used to go, climb over the wall and go to a brothel… (SV: Who gave them money?) …and would drink saki and do all kinds of things. (laughter) (SR: Did it work or…?) Their parents put them into monk-ship when they were children but everybody is different.
Jay (SJ): A lot of the reason is so that they can handle their village temple and get money. It’s a job. (R: Sure.) For the Japanese or it was or something. So I think that is a very limited example.
(R: Sure.)
Jorge (SR): So what shall I do in my case?
R: In your case forget about everything. Forget about everyone. Simply look at yourself and realize “Who is doing this?”…
(tape ends)
Absätze ohne Sprecherpräfix gehören dem zuletzt genannten Sprecher — so steht es im Buch, wo der Präfix nur den Anfang einer Rede markiert. Die Zuordnung ist eine Folgerung dieser Ausgabe. Namen in Klammern sind aus dem Text erschlossen: sicher belegt sind SM = Mary, SF = Fred, SJ = Jay, SC = Nate, wahrscheinlich SG = Glen, SR = Jorge. Alle anderen Kürzel bleiben stehen, weil der Beleg nicht trägt.