– Transcript 175
R: Good evening. It is a pleasure to be with you again. I welcome you with all my heart. I love you. All is well. Everything is unfolding as it should.
While I was sitting in the silence. I sort of reverted to the days when I was in Arunachala. I usually do not discuss this too much with other people but since it just came to me I will sort of briefly touch the subject.
I had been living in Ramana ashram for about a year and a half. This was the end of 1948. I stayed with Arthur Osborne, in his house. In those days when foreigners came they were put up with Arthur Osborne most of the time without him knowing.
And on one particular evening about 4 o clock Sri Ramana walked into the cottage and he brought me a mango. And he sat down on a stool in the corner of the room. I sat on the bed. We looked at each other and we smiled. He gave me one of his beautiful grins of his. And I knew that we should keep silent we should say anything because there is nothing to say. But all of a sudden he asked me a question. I asked him, “Ramana what is more important to be in the presence of a Sage or to practice atma-vichara by yourself, self-inquiry?” I had already known the answer but it seemed the right thing to do was to ask him the question.
And he knew that I knew the answer. He waited a few seconds ??? and then he said, “The Sage is atma-vichara. The Sage is the Self, your Self.” Therefore when one is in the presence of the Sage all of the sadhana is being done at an accelerating rate. Everything that has to be done is being done. When one is in the presence of a true Sage.
So again I asked him, “How come so many people have come to you and only certain people feel it. Some people feel nothing. Some people go away disappointed. And some people get all of their dreams fulfilled?” Again I knew the answer.
So he waited a minute or so and he said, “This depends on the maturity of the seeker. It depends on the sincerity of the seeker. As you can see many people come here to visit me. To make a judgment and then they go look for another teacher. They go somewhere else. They travel all through India. And then they go back to England or to Holland or to the United States and they tell their friends that they have seen 10 Sages. Yet nothing has happened to them. But if one is sincere and surrenders totally to the Sage then the Sage, the grace of the Sage will automatically is felt by this individual and this individual makes tremendous progress. But the person really has to be sincere.” By sincere he said, “I mean he has to be a devotee. To forget about him or herself totally, completely and merge in the Sage.“I then asked him another question, “What is the easiest way and most effective way to do atma-vichara, self-inquiry?” Again he smiled and waited a few seconds and then he said, “To always be aware consciously in all situations of the I-am. No matter what you’re doing where you are be aware of the I-am in your heart. This is the most effective practice.”
His head started shaking and I also asked about this. “Why do you have this weakness?” I found out later his head was shaking for the last forty years. He again explained to me that when he had his experience when he was sixteen years old it was like putting an elephant in a hut. What happens when you put an elephant in a hut? The hut shakes all over. It breaks to pieces. When he had his near death experience he told me his body shook to pieces as-it-were and left him weak. This is interesting to remember.
I asked him, “Why didn’t this happen to me at the time?” And he explained to me that I had an experience not of death but of life. Which is a little different. I asked him, “What determines these experiences?” He said, “Karma.” I then left it alone. He walked with a cane , with a stick. This was 1949 he was very sick. That is how his body appeared.
And his attendant came in took him to his toilet where he was supposed to go about 4 o clock and he left.
Now these things are very interesting so we’ll discuss them. When I say you have to be sincere to make spiritual progress I’m not speaking of sincerity as a longing or a wanting or a needing to become self-realized. In this case sincerity means total honesty, total humility, total love. This is what sincerity means in this case. When you have total honesty, total love you do not think of yourself any longer. You do not think about your problems or your humanhood or your self in anyway whatsoever. This doesn’t matter try to understand this.
It doesn’t matter what situations you are going through in this life. Whether you’re experiencing good or bad, riches or poverty, sickness or health these things are totally irrelevant. The idea is to take your mind off yourself, your little self, off the I-thought and merge you mind with the I-am consciousness. Forget about your pettiness. Forget about your personal life. In truth you have no personal life. You must always remember this.
There is nothing personal about you.
You’re always so worried about your affairs as if something can hurt you in this world. This world is a world of god. It is a spiritual world. Everything in this world is Brahman. How can Brahman hurt you. How can god cause you misery or pain. These things are the false I. You have for some reason or another become hypnotized into believing you have pain, you have lack, you have imitation, there is something wrong with you.
This is an optical illusion.
You do not really exist as a body at all. There is no body that you have to get rid of. Some of you are still meditating on the fact that yo have to get rid of your body somehow. Some of you even believe and think that you would like to so-called die to the body.
So you can be free of it. This is a false premise. How can you be free of something that you
never had? The body is an appearance like the world. Who’s appearance? Nobody’s appearance. But for some reason you have become attached to the thing called the body and to this manifest world. This is the only reason you suffer. Because of your attachment to the body and to the world. If you were not attached to your body or to the world who would be left to suffer? It is the body that suffers. It is the body that goes through experiences. Not you.
If only you could understand what I’m saying. And go deep within yourself. Beyond the body. Beyond the experiencer. Beyond the witness. Beyond everything. If you can only feel this you would always be in bliss, always. You would always be totally, completely, absolutely happy. For no reason whatsoever.
Do not look to the world to solve your problems. Do not believe and think that if you change conditions that you would be better off. Some people believe that if they didn’t work they would be better off. They would be happy and peaceful, blissful. Some people believe that if they had a job that they liked they would be blissful and happy. Everybody believes something else. All of these beliefs are wrong. They’re wrong because you are looking to a condition to make you happy. You’re looking for an experience to give you peace. You’re doing this again because you believe you are a body.
There is no condition, there is no experience in this world that can bring you peace and happiness. For peace and happiness are your rightful nature. This is your natural state. It is only when you allow the mind to think that trouble begins.
So the first step in spiritual life is learning to control your mind.
You learn to control your mind by inquiring, “To whom does the mind come?”
This makes you realize that the mind comes to your body. It’s part of your body process.
But in truth you have no mind. You are mindless. When you are mindless you are Brahman. You are god. Where the mind is limited. You have to always go beyond the mind.
You stop paying attention to the thoughts. Let the thoughts do what they will. Allow the thoughts to frighten you if they will. To tell you all kinds of stories. To tell you all kinds of things. Do not pay any attention. When you ignore your mind it will go away.
The second step in spiritual progress is to develop humility. And humility means you do not judge people. You do not feel slighted when someone talks about you or tells you something rude. You do not get angry or upset. You just remain yourself.
This sounds like a wimp. But a wimp is a person who believes in this world and sticks up for their rights. They’re always defending themselves. What kind of a being can go through all of that. Go beyond it and see the reality. A wimp cannot do that. A wimp is the same as a coward in this world. But a person who has developed a tremendous humility. Has total love forgiveness and compassion for everything and everybody. Therefore they do not have the slightest hint for retaliation or revenge or anger.
For part of the humility is realizing that there is only one self. You are the self of all, of every person, every animal, every vegetable, every mineral. You are that self, all pervading. Therefore you become angry with yourself. You take revenge on yourself.
You’ve hurt yourself. Learn to leave everything alone. Especially yourself.
Understand that when one door closes another door opens. The universe is on your side. Life is on your side. Nothing is against you. Always try to be cheerful. Do not tell people your troubles or your problems for they have got their own. Stop feeling sorry for yourself.
If you only became aware of the power within you. The universal essence. Then all the gods that you’ve been worshiping will come to your aid and worship you. They will all be within you. When all of these years you’ve been worshiping the Buddha or the Christ or Shiva or Krishna. All of these gods are really you. You are that. When you are happy sure of yourself then the gods become you totally and completely and you become a powerhouse of joy and love. You are already free. You are already liberated. There is nothing you need. There is no thing you have to become. Do not think about this. Just be it.
You think you may be in need of something but who is in need of something? The ego. It is the ego that has fears. That they ay lose something or something my be taken away from them. If you can only understand the deep power you have. It will always take care of you and watch you and look over you and protect you. You have to learn to feel this in your heart. This is what Ramana meant when he said, “Always be aware of the I-am.” Under all conditions be aware of I-am. Not I am this or I am that, just I am. The first name of god.
When Moses was freeing the children of Israel from bondage in Egypt and god spoke to him and told him to go to Egypt and set his people free. Moses inquired, “Well who shall I say sent me?” And God said, “Say I am that I am.” Meaning the power of god is Moses himself or anyone who utters this statement. This used to be a very sacred word, “I am.” But in this age people use it very loosely. And they get so used to it that it has no meaning to them any longer. I am is almighty power. I am is god. I am is pure awareness, absolute reality. I-am is.
If you can only remember this and feel it in your heart. That is all you have to do.
Feel the I-am in your heart and you will become totally free. Whatever you’re doing during the day whether you’re working or washing dishes or driving the car always say, “I am,” to yourself. An realize what you’re saying. When you utter those syllables I-am the whole universe becomes you. You awaken to the reality of life. You true nature. The self.
Do not believe or think that you will lose interest in life or lose interest in your husband or your wife or your family. Ramana was a typical example of this. He would get up at 3 o clock in the morning and chop vegetables with the cook. Make breakfast for all the people in the ashram. He kept himself very active when he was able to. This shows you that you can be a Jnani and partake in the world also.
When you think of a holy person do not believe they have to live in a cave or in a jungle retreat. It so happens that Ramana went to Arunachala and stayed there all of his
life. But he could have gone to the market place and worked. He could have been an engineer, a book keeper, a scientist, a garbage man. Realization does not make you into a babbling idiot. It makes you into a quiet idiot. It keeps you from talking too much.
Your life is your responsibility. What are you going to do with the days you’ve got left on this earth. If you’re interested in all of these things of the world when you realize they’re subject to change continuously you’re foolish. All your so-called troubles. All of your affairs, the affairs of the world, everything going on in this world today are all subject to change, everything changes. Nothing is ever the same. Therefore you become disillusioned. Totally disillusioned when you give yourself to this world.
Surrender to the self. Become totally free. Do not fear this world any longer. Do not become bamboozled by the things you watch on TV. When you hear about the wars all over, mans’ inhumanity to man. And watch the TV you see people getting killed all over this world. Realize what this is. Maya, a cosmic joke. Illusion, an appearance. Like the water in the mirage. The more you dive within yourself the more you will be able to seethe truth about this world and you will laugh.
Therefore spend your time going into the I-am. Into the self. If you want to solve your problems do not think about your problems at all. Think of I-am. I-am is omniscience, all pervading, omnipotence, omnipresent. I-am is god. Absolute reality peace.
Therefore when you really put your faith in the I-am your whole world will change to perfection.
Now let’s practice the I-am meditation.
Make yourself comfortable. And really feel this. This is what you should be doing by yourself. Close you eyes to remove obstructions. Focus your attention on your breath.
Observe your breath, your respiration. Do not emphasize your breath, breath normally.
Observe the feelings of your body. All the feelings that you have in your body. Observe them watch them.
You are now the witness to your thoughts and your bodily feelings. Do not try to stop your thoughts or change your thoughts. Just watch your thoughts. Remember you are the witness. No matter what your thoughts tell you just watch them.
Now ask yourself, “What is the source of the witnessing? I am.” With your respiration dive deep within yourself as you say, “I-am,” to yourself. As you inhale you say, “I,” as you exhale you say, “am.” With every breath of I-am feel your self diving deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper within the self. Within the heart.
With every breath. With every “I,” with every “am.” You are going deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper. Deeper than you’ve ever gone before. Transcending your thoughts and your bodily functions. Your mind. Your samskaras. Your karma. It’s all being transcended. It’s all being transmuted. And it’s turning into nothingness. You are becoming absolutely free. As you go deeper and deeper within the I-am. Do it!
(silence)SK: Robert in the books that I’ve read about Ramana there is not that much about him saying things about witness stuff. Did you hear him say stuff about witnessing?
R: No witness is usually from Buddhism, from zen. It’s a zen tradition. But it’s also a Hindu tradition. In some aspects of Hinduism. He said to some people about witnessing.
He mentioned it, yes. He didn’t give it too much praise but he talked about it. He used words like to be aware rather than to witness.
SU: What’s the difference between being aware and witnessing?) R: It’s the same thing. They just use that terminology. In Buddhism you use witnessing a lot. It’s all the same.
No questions no prashad. (students laugh)
Fred (SF): I have a question. (laughter) I remember back when I was in therapy. Sometimes we tried to analyze dreams. The doctor would always insist that in the dream there was nothing outside of me. Out of nothing I appeared along with everything created and transpired in the dream. So there was a creator in the dream and a creation in the dream. And they’re equal thoughts of one whole. So the creator and the creator are one. And when the dream is over there is no more dream.
That’s it, nothing. And of course apparently in the dream time it’s also together also a creation or is created in the dreamer. And it’s a different type of time that we have in the individual experiences in the waking state. It occurred to me that the waking state is really no different than in the dream state. You want to comment on that?
R: Well you know this is true already. (SF: Sir?) You realize this is already true we’ve discussed this many times. There is no dream state. There is definitely not a waking state. They’re both the same. The only difference is that the waking state is longer than the dream state. It appears to be like that. But in the dream state you are asleep and the dream is coming out of you. You are creating the whole universe. Everything comes out of you as a dream. Comes out of your mind. The same thing is happening in the waking state. This whole world, this whole universe comes out of your mind. This is the reason we’re told to transcend the mind. To kill the mind. When the mind is killed the whole universe is also killed. With all the gods and the goddesses and the devils and everything else including your body. It’s all gone. (SF: Earthquakes and the riots and…?) And you’re awake. You are truly awake. Just like in the dream. When you awake from the dream you awake as you are today. But when you wake up from this dream you will be totally aware and you will still be. You will not disappear. The real you will still exist.
Fred (SF): To the Jnani there is observation even when there is nothing to be observed. In other words, there is a book called “conscious immortality,” and apparently it’s the state of the Jnani.
R: The Jnani has nothing, is nothing, wants nothing… (SF: He is no more an individual.) And has nothing to do with anything else. The Jnani is complete nothingness. (SF: Nothingness?) Yes. There is no more states of any kind for the Jnani. (SF: He has transcended the whole silliness?) Exactly.
Glen (SG): Robert you were talking about the sleeping state and the waking state. They apparently seem to be almost the same or very similar, correct?
R: No the sleeping state and the waking state are different. (SG: Well in the sleeping state people have dreams and in the waking state they have illusions. So it’s almost like, I mean I think in the waking state people walk around in kind of a daze. And in sleep they are just totally asleep.) When you are in the deep sleep state without dreaming you are the self unconscious. When you dream you become the witness to the dream. In this waking state you’re also the witness. So there is a witness who is functioning while you are dreaming, while you are awake and while you sleep. Which is the I-am. The I-am exists as the witness. So when you’re dreaming, when you’re sleeping in deep sleep and when you wake up to this state they’re all illusions. The I is the reality. Therefore identify with the I or the real I and the other three states will disappear and you will be free of them.
Glen (SG): For me the witness state with me it’s I feel it but then regularly the ego comes in and it seems to be more predominant. I go in and out of these states when I’m aware for a while and I’ll get a lot of flurry of thoughts will come and I have these problems that I think I have to solve and then I’ll come back to the present moment.
R: That’s how it is in the beginning. Simply observe it, do not judge yourself. Keep thinking you’re going deep within and let whatever happens, happen. But do not judge yourself or feel something is wrong or something is right.
Glen (SG): I mean what I wanted to ask you was about sleep. People, they look forward to sleep to having a real deep the more depressed they are - at least in my case - the longer I want to sleep I don’t want to get up or I look to sleep as kind of an escape. (R: Yes.) But there is a different kind of sleep that I experience, I sleep less and I don’t seem to get so much pleasure after sleeping or it’s sort of a function you have to go through to rest your body.
R: And when you wake up you say, “I slept well.” (SG: Sometimes, yes.) When you sleep through it when you do not dream. When you sleep continuously without dreaming you get up and you feel refreshed. You feel good. This shows you that in deep sleep you were your original self. That you were not the body you were your self. And it shows you the self always is happy. It is only when you become cognizant of the world that the problems begin. (SG: So in the sleep so the waking state is mixed with the sleep state when you’re dreaming?) The waking state? (SG: Yeah.) The waking state as nothing to do with the deep sleep state. In the deep sleep state you are not waking, you are not sleeping. You are in deep sleep. But it’s not really a sleep. You are the self unconscious. The self without consciousness. When you awaken to the true self, reality you are the self with consciousness.
But when you are in deep sleep it gives you an idea how real awakening is. For you feel wonderful when you wake up from deep sleep. You say, “I slept well I feel wonderful. When you awaken from this dream you’ll be totally free of everything. You’ll feel total happiness, total joy, total liberation. But in the meanwhile you are the witness to all three states. Just by thinking of that gives you progress in your sadhana, in your spiritual practice. (SG: The awakened state is beyond the witness state?) Yes of course. When you awaken there is no more witness. There is nothing to witness for you’re totally free.SK: It sounds to me kind of like the metaphor of vishnu the cosmic dreamer dreams the universe and also dreams the self. It’s kind of like a metaphor for all of us. All our consciousness is that kind of a…?
R: You can say this. You can say it’s a metaphor. But it is you who thinks f a metaphor. It is the mind that thinks of a metaphor. Therefore when you are in the true state there is no longer any metaphor whatsoever. It’s all finished. You are beyond metaphors.
Beyond waking, beyond sleeping, beyond dreaming. You have become all pervading consciousness, emptiness, nothing. But while you’re practicing it appears to be like a metaphor. When you are awake who is left to have a metaphor. (SK: Can you run that by, again?) When you wake up to reality who is left to have a metaphor of any kind. It is the mind that compares. The mind that metaphorically sees something says, “This is like this and this is like that.” But when you awaken to your true self there is nobody left. Nobody home. You’re finished, cooked.
Fred (SF): No more individuals. (R: Exactly!)
SI: From a separate state how can that be the Self?
R: (laughs) It’s beautiful. It’s not terrible, it’s beautiful because you’re totally free, totally liberated. (SI: I’m not an actor in this?) You’re not an actor on the contrary. You do whatever your body came here to do. But you are not attached to anything any longer.
You’re not looking for credit. You’re not looking for anything. You’re totally free and beyond everything.
SI: A friend of mine speaks several languages. She’s Swedish and she says that in Swedish they don’t have a word for mind.
R: That is interesting I didn’t know that. (SG: What was the question?) In Sweden they do not have a word for mind. (SG: They don’t have a word for mind?) SV: That’s hard to believe.
R: That’s hard to believe yes. (SI: But she is really good with languages.) Yet every human being in this world if they’re not enlightened they have a mind. They have to think of their mind because what thinks? (SI: I’m sure they have thoughts in the brain.) Of course.
They may just use a different name for it or all Sweden will be enlightened. (laughter) SV: And they’re not. Been there.
R: So they must have a mind they probably use a different word.
SK: Robert it’s hard to follow the belief systems that the mind has accepted. You were talking about just transcending them rather than - you know - it’s like feeling in the end you’re looking at more illusion that I have. Looking at my false beliefs just going through them all and finding that there is nothing there and they’re all false. All false beliefs as if my. It’s like living my life under a false pretense.
R: Yes but you do not have to go through all your false beliefs. Simply drop everything and wake up. (laughter) (SK: Yeah. But it’s tough.) For whom is it tough? Do not use words like it’s tough or it’s hard or something is heavy. Your self is pure, your self is absolute and you are that right now. So identify with that. Not with the problems or trying to get rid of problems because it is the mind that tries to get rid of problems. Don’t even transcend the problems because you’re admitting there is problems that have to be transcended. The reality has no problems. Never had, never will. Therefore there is nothing to transcend reality and you are reality.
Glen (SG): Robert in the talk you said about surrendering your life to the guru? Could you elaborate on that?
R: Not to the guru. The guru means teacher. We’re talking about a Sage, a Jnani.
(SG: Yes.) There’s a difference. A Sage to be a Sage has to be omnipresent. A Sage is no longer confined to a body. Even though he or she may appear to look like a body. But the Sage realizes or knows that they are not the body at all. So when one surrenders deeply, reverently to the Sage they’re really surrendering to themselves. Because yourself and the Sages self is one. So when you truly surrender and have humility you have grace because grace is the same as the Sage and it’s all pervading. But you can only feel it when you come into conscious contact with the Sages grace by total humility and total surrender.
Therefore to the extent you surrender to that extent will you feel the grace and this will lift you upward. (SG: What you’re implying like accepting the teaching. Really considering the teaching seriously and not resisting and so on?) You’re always surrendering to something. (SG: Um-hm.) Many people are surrendered to buying lotto tickets. Surrender to the house. The house worships you, you worship your house. Your car, the world, to your job. Whatever you feel deeply that is surrender. So what we’re saying here if you surrender totally to the self which is within yourself, the real you, the form of yourself as a Sage. So when you surrender to a Sage you are not surrendering to a human being. You’re surrendering to yourself, to god. Which is you. There is only one. And then all knowledge comes to you.
All freedom comes to you. All liberation comes to you.
Mary would you read the Jnani?
Mary: Yes, Robert. (R: You always come prepared.) Always. (laughs) (Mary reads the Jnani refer to the beginning of this book for text.) R: Thank you Mary. (SM: Thank you Robert.) Do we have any announcements?
(Mary: Yes) Let me say something first. I’ve had an unusually heavy amount of calls this month. So some of you have called me and I have not returned your call. Do not feel slighted. The call alone answers your question. Therefore if you call me about a problem the answer is already forthcoming. So keep calling. (students laugh) SM: We have more transcripts to be handed out to be xeroxed. And this is “Return to the Source.” I do really like this one. (SG: What number is it?) It’s number 80.
R: It is prashad time. You have been good little boys and girls. So you get your reward…Australian ginger. Boy I always buy this kind of stuff, it’s good…
(tape ends)
Absätze ohne Sprecherpräfix gehören dem zuletzt genannten Sprecher — so steht es im Buch, wo der Präfix nur den Anfang einer Rede markiert. Die Zuordnung ist eine Folgerung dieser Ausgabe. Namen in Klammern sind aus dem Text erschlossen: sicher belegt sind SM = Mary, SF = Fred, SJ = Jay, SC = Nate, wahrscheinlich SG = Glen, SR = Jorge. Alle anderen Kürzel bleiben stehen, weil der Beleg nicht trägt.